Tony’s Politics Live Debate: Bothsidesism works for Israel/Palestine

this is the hardest issue maybe the hardest issue that we have to address but um I was just
talking with another Creator offline and um you know we’ve both
gotten wind to the fact that Russian propaganda in this um and again wait to
hear me out but Russian propaganda in this U is targeting very heavily
progressives um in the United States talking about Biden genocide and such
now I personally tend to be much more sympathetic to the
oppressed um and I understand the fact that um to put it simply when you create
ghettos you get gangs right and so when you put the Palestinians in the horrific
situation that they live in uh um you’re bound to get a violent response at some
point the frustration that I’m having and the reason that I do think to some extent that both sides ISM work Works in
this circumstance is because from so many progressives I hear them just scooting right over the fact
um that you know over a thousand people were slaughtered kidnapped um in you
know the biggest terrorist attack that we’ve seen probably since September 11th
um that’s not okay you know U for those of you who have some semblance of at
least a past Christian faith you know you’ll probably recollect in the Bible when Jesus talks about some of the
parties that he’s dealing with right so he talks about things like the zealots um the Pharisees but you know
specifically the zealots um wanted a violent response to
how they were being treated by the Romans um and you know a big part of his
ministry was was um countering that you know and
and you saw a lot of this in the Civil Rights Movement um how
do we effectively counter oppression lovingly
non-violently um and in fact that’s the only way that’s been proven to have a longlasting effect when you have violent
up risings even if this situation um you know proves itself to be
conducive to something like that it never it’s never sustained you end up having typically another violent regime
take over something like we see in Iran um you know we’ve seen it count countless places around the world and so
I think if you know if the left wants to start this conversation in a place of
Love instead of anger they’ve got to ad admit the fact that what Hamas did was not okay and horrific um young girls
especially you know we’re talking about young girls that were probably against uh you know protesting some of them were
protesting against n yahu and his right-wing regime um they don’t deserve
to go through what they had to go through or to be killed or raped or you know whatever else happened um and we
got to have that as a starting place you can’t just start you know on the tie rate of Israel oppression Israel
oppression is very real um and we need to talk about it but we’re not going to
be able to come to a place where we can talk about it unless we admit
um that violence is wrong and all s uh so both sides ISM in terms of just you
know you see this a lot in the media right feeling like they have to address both sides um or establishing moral
equivalency for both sides um kind of too you know multifaceted if
you will but um it’s you know there’s
no how do I put it in in this circumstances both sides are wrong and
that’s the truth uh you can argue whether one side is more wrong than the other um and like I said I tend to be
sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians that’s you know that’s naturally where I align but that doesn’t
mean um that we can be okay with this sort of thing exactly how about all the kids
well yeah kids yeah exactly Palestinian kids right now this is why you know me personally I’m supportive of a ceasefire
and I hope that we see more calls for that um I don’t think that Israel should
be um you know completely occupying Gaza
as they do with the with the West Bank for the most part um
you know that’s the ones who suffer are especially in Palestine the kids is
that’s about 50% of the population but kids died in Israel as well and so we’ve got to denounce all of
it any truth that BB I I am not going to this is one of the things we have to
deal with here is um it’s whyde misinformation Works you’ve got to
believe the bare minimum um you know when the when the hospital bombing news
came out um everyone reacted immediately and we probably shouldn’t have we hadn’t
you know we couldn’t even get cameras in there we don’t know what’s going on we’re only hearing one side um and the
same goes with the initial attack the same goes with some of the operations in Gaza
um but you know I I think uh unfortunately it’s like I saw I saw a
lot of progress I think a lot of you did in this conversation um in the months prior and
the second that this attack happened everybody just reverted right back to um
you know the same responses that you would hear in the 90s or previously and so it’s it’s really hard to
have um you know compassionate conversation about it why I haven’t I think I’ve made
one video on this because it’s just it’s too much um I just don’t understand
though you know I guess I shouldn’t say I don’t understand I do understand why anger is the initial response but anger
is not the initial response that’s going to work it’s not going to heal anything it’s not going to do anything except
sustain violence and that goes for Israel Israel and this uh
Onslaught that they are embarking on um yes of course they have the right to
defend themselves but that level it’s got to be at an appropriate level you
know the United States we obviously made huge mistakes in Afghanistan and Iraq
but there’s some differences there um you know and for the most part when you look at a place like
Afghanistan um there was a real effort made and I think there probably is a real effort made in Israel as well to
avoid Civ civilian casualties but um you
know obviously it’s not possible to completely avoid them but to make no effort in fact to start cutting off
water and food and electricity is another level and that’s got to be stopped um but you have to
understand the anger you know we had the same anger after September 11th I felt it you felt
it um persuasion is definitely not dead you know it’s easy for me to prove that
because look at how fast people change their minds I mean I’m I obviously changed you can see here former
conservative for those of you who haven’t heard me before um I’ve changed my mind quite a bit in my life but
people change their mind so quickly based on
um you know most of the time cognitive distance or confirmation bias and so of
course persuasion is not dead um you know this situation just proves that you
know people who were in the Palestinian Camp here in the on the left the United States that are not even addressing the
horrific nature of the terrorist attack um fall into that camp they just forget
about it even though that’s what the right did right um and so persuasion
persuasion is definitely not de I’m sorry to hear that they um I’m
assuming you’re talking about Israel when you say that I didn’t see the if there was any previous comments I’m
sorry to hear that um
you know I think it’s it’s not something that I can completely address with you other than
offering my love and sympathy because I’m not in your shoes I don’t have that
deep anger if in fact what you’re saying is true um all I can say is that if you
look throughout history at what’s been effective in sustained peace and
sustained progress it’s never been retribution and violence it’s never
worked not once um so that’s all I can say to you other
than obviously offering my complete
sympathy yeah I mean you know Israel if they are going to counter it’s got to be
limited and targeted I know Hamas hides behind civilians I get it that’s but that that’s the way it is we you know
we’ve had to deal with that as well and um it’s it’s just part of the challenge
of modern
warfare and that’s again they have been torturing I get it I absolutely get what
is it before this even happened I think we were looking at something like 600 kids in Palestine had already died this
year um it’s not okay and I’ll even go so far
as to say um if if you’re looking at the you know the or origins of this
problem look closer to the British and the Israelis in United States than than to the Palestinians of course that being
said retribution is never okay and it never works show me an instance where uh
a violent counter a violent Uprising has sustained peace and progress show me one
instance where that’s
happened Hamas did not do what you might have to explain
further I wonder in this in these lives how many
are to make it clear if you put your actual name uh and maybe a picture of yourself
in your profile nobody would get have to guess whether or not you’re a Russian bot
so I don’t know if you’re talking to me when you say what should we do then I you know for me an immediate
ceasefire is is the best solution but you know you you can’t stop Israel from
defending themelves from Hamas but I think they could do that um in cooperation with their
allies um in a much more humane way but we got you got to fix Palestine I mean
yeah that’s that is if Israel wants to look at this
longer than the short term and longer than uh netanyahu’s political ambitions
um the way to stop the violence is to improve the conditions in
Palestine to um embark on a path of
self-determination uh you know whether that’s two-state solution or otherwise
um and so that’s that’s how you end the violence that’s the origin of it that being said that doesn’t mean those
actions are okay that doesn’t mean um you can just start killing kids no
matter who you are and you know if you’re just going to sit here and defend
that and not admit that that’s wrong at all you’re not going to make any progress how do you expect to make any
progress if you’re not trying to persuade people what are you even trying to
do if there’s nobody left to persuade then why even talk why do
anything um yeah feel free to put questions in the comment come on to debate I’m not that scary I
know for those of you who don’t know me I was uh former conservative I worked for two conservative members of Congress
as well as some other electeds um I was in government Affairs for number of years and now I’m a
Democrat and um on the other side of things
but one second
Hi how are you good how are you I’m doing you I I caught the tail end of
that um you said you’re now a Democrat yeah yep can you expand on that
just a little bit yeah yeah I mean obviously it was an overnight transition but um you know
over the over uh a little over 10 years you know I kind of had a slow
transformation um I started in politics at a very young age um having grown up
as an Evangelical conservative and uh you know grew up obsessed with obsessed with conservative
media um long story short those things changed um 2016 was sort of the nail in
the coffin for me in terms of the party itself that’s when I became an independent and then uh January 7th 2021
not necessarily because of the violent Insurrection but uh more so the 147 Republican members that voted to
overturn the election results I decided to register as a Democrat because I saw that as the only Avenue to stop what was
going on and and and most of my positions are fairly Progressive
soes that make sense yeah no I’m just taking it all in I’m listening to you
taking it all where where are you at uh politically
I’m in Spokane Washington oh no I just mean politically where you at uh I’m a total [ _ ] 15:07 Republican conservative I honestly I mean I I 15:13 respect your opinions I respect your opinions you know um and I yours well 15:19 you know we can talk about it and [ _ ] I just feel like you know Jesus Christ
that that that election was to total
fraud uh Joe Biden should not be [ _ ] president and and here’s the here’s the thing has 15:37 nothing to do with Democrats versus [ _ ] Republicans or conservatives
anything like that let’s make the right decision for the country I mean have you seen this guy come the [ _ ] 15:50 on what um what was fraudulent about it the election was rigged 15:59 how was it rigged the entire election was rigged the all the votes at 2:00 in 16:05 the morning swapped over and where are you hearing 16:14 that I saw it happen babe sure sure you I mean obviously you 16:20 know I’m assuming you understand the uh situation with mail and ballots and Co 16:25 so for God to got to backtrack a little bit so I um I was around early in my 16:31 political career when California was implementing um mail and ballots for the 16:37 first time and this was a republican Le initiative uh largely because most 16:44 Republican voters were older and they wanted to make it easier for some of these older voters especially those with 16:50 health issues to vote and so mail and ballots were initiated and and the you 16:56 know the way they were initiated now it’s a little different different where everyone is actually given a mailin 17:01 ballot um dead people for Joe Biden I love people voted for let me well let me 17:08 uh let me go a little bit further here um and so in terms of those mail and ballots they were more secure than the 17:15 actual bouts because of uh you know all of the um concerns that we had to get 17:21 around and so that’s why they require a signature and um all kinds of verifications so you can actually be 17:27 more you know secure in a mail and ballot being an actual vote than somebody that 17:34 goes to the polling station with all du because of the level of verification and 17:39 so for years for years Republicans used mail and ballots more often than 17:46 Democrats and so what we would see in elections was Republicans voting early 17:52 and taking early leads and then Democrats coming back later and all those those uh votes from the polling 17:58 station coming in and Democrats would um 18:03 you know come on a little bit later and that’s that’s sort of just a natural way it flowed right um in 18:12 2020 everything flipped because of coid obviously we had these political fights 18:17 in this country in terms of um wonder what was going on with coid and for 18:23 whatever reason Republicans decided to stop trusting mailin ballot 18:29 Democrats Democrats relied on mailin ballots because they were safer Co was 18:34 going nobody wanted to go to the polling station because of pandemic and so what happened was those Trends completely 18:40 flipped and so you had Democrat votes um you know coming in early in the 18:46 mailin but the mail ends aren’t counted till after so previously the Republicans vote earlier but they would be counted 18:53 later so those Republican votes would would come later so when I say an early lead I just meant those those ballots 18:59 were received earlier but you didn’t see that lead to later in 2020 that flipped 19:04 so you didn’t see the Democrat votes until later and so all the people that went to the polling station that were 19:10 Republican it would it made it look like Republicans had a commanding lead but once those mailin ballots were counted 19:17 Democrats came back and then took the lead so if you saw a change in the middle of the night that’s true but you 19:24 were probably only shocked by it because it was now Democrats when in you know the past uh you know 10 elections before 19:32 that it was Republicans that would come on Le SLI in three seconds at 3:00 in 19:37 the morning it doesn’t flip from 100,000 votes one way to the other it it just 19:43 doesn’t do that well nothing happened in 3 seconds I don’t know what you’re talking about there yes it absolutely did all the votes that went for Trump 19:49 flipped over to Biden that it’s fraudin frenal election so I just need to stop 19:56 you there because it’s just not true that’s not what happened so yeah votes did come in later that were Democrat but 20:02 nothing flipped in in three minutes 100,000 votes that’s you probably heard that on some three seconds um yeah three 20:09 seconds that doesn’t happen so you probably heard that on some rightwing station like own or something like that 20:14 but that that’s not true that doesn’t happen but what does happen is those Democrat votes will come in later 20:20 because they were mailing votes why okay so can I ask you something why do you 20:26 stand true and stand tall as a Democrat today what’s what back what do you mean 20:33 stand true and stand tall as a Democrat what does that Democrat what makes you your political beliefs what makes you a 20:40 Democrat today I’m not a stand true and Stand Tall Democrat I’m a member of a 20:46 political party for political reasons and the reason for political card parties is to get likeminded candidates 20:53 elected nothing more nothing less this isn’t like some ideological cult for me 20:59 this is just the Avenue that I have right now to get like-minded people elected if there were more political 21:04 parties that were effective that would be wonderful but that’s not the case right now so speak your case who are you 21:12 so it’s not a stand tall and stand true thing it’s that this is the best option to get the most like-minded people 21:18 elected you’re obviously sicking your neck out for Democrats and liberals so 21:24 all I’m asking you to do is do you mean sticking my neck out I’m not sure what that means cuz you’re [ _ ] on here
right now cuz you’re I’m not on here for Democrats and liberals I happen to be a registered Democrat but I’m on here for
myself you’re on here for yourself it’s because I’m a Democrat doesn’t mean that I align with Democrats
and everything it just happens to be the best Avenue for me right now oh I see but in the future if that changes just
like political parties change I’ll switch I’m not I’m not a I’m not a loyal
party guy it’s just this is where I need to be right now so you’re an independent I was an independent until
January 6th till January 6 when the capital was
rated yeah not so much the physical rating because the you know these goobers um aren’t going to make me
switch my political affiliation uh but the 147 Republicans have voted to overturn the election results um that’s
what made me switch that’s that’s dangerous and so Democratic party unfortunately right now is the only way
to stop that and it happened to align with their values more yeah you know what does align with a lot of pe’s
values or these [ _ ] Democrats that went into the capital nothing has ever 22:40 happened to them they’ve raided it they have 22:46 totally and they violated it more than anything that ever happened on January 6 22:52 with the conservative party no nothing will I understand that when somebody 22:58 says something that I understand that when somebody says something you disagree with and you don’t know all the 23:04 information to counter that that can be angering U but I would encourage you to 23:09 just stop for a minute and consider the fact that you might not know all the 23:15 information you might be getting information from uh fraudulent sources um and I think you need to take 23:22 that into consideration CU you’re bouncing around quite a bit when you know when I when I finish up a point on 23:28 a single argument you then bounce over the next Point TR to ask me why I’m a Democrat or yeah what not but if we can 23:34 stay on a single topic and debate that single topic you know I think that we can make some 23:40 progress oh God because I only have so much time to talk to you I only have you know a 23:46 limited amount of time to tell you that you’re a [ _ ] dumbass and you should [ _ ] shut up and be quiet and [ _ ]
follow that’s the kind of response you get when you don’t know what you’re talking about you resort to things like
that if you knew what you were talking about you would just debate me but when you don’t you get angry you start
launching things like that and just makes you look silly oh okay all right
cool wow good luck but if you want to debate a topic feel free if you want to
stick to the election that’s fine if you want to go back to Israel Palestine but I would encourage you instead of
dropping bombs and saying I don’t know what to talk about to consider the fact that you may not know what you’re
talking about wow I can’t sit here and and you look me in the face you look in
the camera and you say that was not a fraudulent election I it wasn’t a fraud
election damn are you kidding me are you [ _ ] kidding me 24:50 that election ladies ladies listen are we can can we first of 24:56 all this what I don’t know hey what’s up everybody how’s everybody 25:02 doing we’re doing okay what do you got for us Daniel well uh not a 25:08 lady well I I didn’t know Jen’s a lady I think and she’s a and there’s well I 25:14 said guys guys and then I said ladies ladies I was that was two for two I kept it 25:19 even what the [ _ ] what do you got for us well uh I feel like the the big thing
that’s being left out of the uh Israel Palestine debate especially like everybody everybody was talking about
epine and gusan Maxwell for years leading up to this and then all of a sudden Israel’s in the news and we
completely forget that they had huge ties to Israeli
intelligence who the Epstein Epstein Gan Maxwell what does it have to do with uh
the current situation why are we funding a country that was running a pedophile
Island operation yep true story I mean where are you getting that information I don’t
know oh you are you you don’t know of this Den you don’t know that gasan Maxwell is a former mad
operative I understand the situation with the Epstein right and I have heard
some of their ties to Israeli authorities American authorities UK
authorities who what does that have to do what I’m talking about I’m not talking ties to I’m talking about they
were mad operatives this is well known what what
does that have to do with our current situation why would we fund a pedophile Island why would we send money to a p
like why are our tax dollars being sent to the country whose intelligence agency
ran an operation that was trafficking hundreds of women hundreds of girls you
a what which what would be a source that you you would deem uh reliable because
this is I mean this is I I I you’re asking me to to cite the source that
Gane Maxwell was a mad operative is that what you’re asking I’m asking you to
site a source it says that the Israeli government was funding his operations do you know what msad is of course but what
does it have to do with the current Israeli Palestinian conflict that’s been going on for hundreds of years do before
Jeffrey EP was alive where where do you think Jeffrey Epstein got his money he was a finance
year right A New York Finance year correct how are we on Jeffrey
Epstein right now you’re gonna have to draw this connection what’s a I don’t know good source how about the
FBI it’s 100% funded by the Israeli government and uh therefore it’s it’s
our tax dollars our tax dollars are Fu do you have a source I asked you what
source would you deem reliable I can show you what do you have
any like what Google go on Google and type in is G Lane Maxwell a former
Massad operative any Source will tell you yes it’s not a conspiracy you just
name one I don’t know what do you got what what article I don’t know let me
yeah let me Google I’m Googling right now on the side here and I don’t see anything so I don’t know what you’re talking about [ _ ] [ _ ] dumbass
you’re you’re [ _ ] ignorant you are ignorant you know Jen the reason I let you stay on here is just so you can show 28:31 people how dumb you are perfectum I’m a [ _ ] doctor by the
way I went to school for [ _ ] of Israel doctor of third grade smackdowns 28:45 Rolling Stone which which one would you like me the guardian which one would you like me to read 28:51 from I know right this is a fun group uh yeah uh say what were the sour again I heard Guardian what else you 28:58 have uh New York Post Rolling Stone even has 29:04 one close I mean do you have like do you know who Robert Maxwell was 29:11 yes I’m not how can we have a conversation though if um I don’t know 29:17 for sure if there are any ties that you’re talking about so I don’t know I don’t know I don’t know I don’t know so 29:25 you don’t know if Robert Maxwell had ties J reminds me of this you know one of those 29:33 UE and you’re asking me to site sources on whether Robert Maxwell was a Massad 29:40 operative what are we talking about here what what is what about the Israeli Palestinian conflict tyal Lial go back 29:46 to the beginning start over ignore everything else typical Li liberal with 29:52 our darn logic so frustrating what are you asking what is 29:57 the question I don’t know what are you getting at man I I’m trying to figure 30:02 out what you’re getting at I’m getting at we shouldn’t be sending our tax dollars to pedophiles enlight mentality save me 30:10 what do you got for us I just want to know why it matters like why like why why does the Epstein thing 30:18 matter why what do you mean why does it m why do why why do our tax dollars funding a pedophile Island 30:25 matter okay the pedophile Island how does that matter to what is happening 30:31 today so let’s say you’re 100% true like correct let’s just say it’s correct why 30:37 does that matter today we’re sending them hundreds of millions of dollars 30:43 more okay so you just have a problem with them sending Israel money in 30:48 general absolutely okay so it’s once it was revealed that a mad 30:55 operative was running a giant pedophile operation out of the United States we should have cut off ties we should have cut off all 31:02 economic ties with Israel what the [ _ ] do you know how much money we’ve sent to Ukraine we sent billions of dollar do
that to we should do the same thing to Ukraine J just realiz he’s not on Daniel’s
side so now let’s say it’s not true like it’s absolutely just a rumor like every
Source says do you still have a problem with them sending money what’s Source says that it’s a
rumor that Cain Maxwell was a mad operative pretty much all of them I looked real quick I’m not going to spend
a ton of time looking into it because I don’t care but um what like let’s say it’s not true
like it’s just a rumor that’s the extent that we know that there’s this rumor do you still have a problem with
them sending money oh yeah of course I mean yeah we have homeless veterans here
we’re sending money so Israel can bomb hospitals
mhm so what obviously um is the Epstein
situation the only reason that you don’t think we should fund Israel or are there other reasons did
you can you guys hear me yeah I can hear you can hear me yeah
I just said I I we have homeless veterans here why would we send money to Israel so that they could throw rockets
at hospitals right so so it goes Bey all I’m saying is it for you it goes beyond
the Epstein situation then right yeah no I don’t see any reason to send money so regardless of whether the
Epstein situation is true we can still move on with our discussion can why do we turn our heads away from that and
just ignore it that’s what all you liberals do you turn your head away and you act like it’s not relevant and not
present why is that I don’t get a sense that Daniel’s a big liberal here but
yeah I mean I don’t know who she’s talking to but uh what what do what do I turn my head
at I don’t think Daniel’s a liberal Jen I know you I know it’s either you I
know it’s either magga or liberal for you there’s no in between but I don’t think that’s where Daniel’s coming from here yeah no I I hate the poor I’m not a
[ _ ] liberal I I I am not a liberal I’m Conservative 33:24 Republican whole we understand that but I’m saying I think you think Daniel’s a liberal and Daniel’s not Jesus Christ 33:31 [ _ ] you you you [ _ ] mind [ _ ] people you’re dumb you drunk I got to
have what you’re drinking tonight yeah I thought that was Chris Angel who mind [ _ ] 33:44 people Mind Freak Mind Freak awesome awesome oh that’s right cuz it was on uh it was on daytime TV hey Mr Tony hey 33:53 Tris what’s going on man yeah the issue we must hit a nerve with 34:01 the alcohol I don’t know either that or her cup was empty and she’s like oh 34:06 [Music] yeah anyway uh well I think we can move on move forward now at least so Travis 34:13 what do you got for us hey I just had a you know quick question you know uh on the Israel Palestine thing all right so 34:20 I I was always like oh wow cool you know we we went in we liberated a bunch of people from you know the camps and in 34:27 after World War II and uh right on we established uh you know Israel as as a 34:34 state there and uh and I always thought you know cool uh I I had a conversation with a friend of mine who was from 34:41 morania who is a Muslim and they had a totally different take and I just thought it was interesting um that you 34:49 know the Palestinians always you know had that that land you know what at 34:54 least it was under British rule I get that uh but they were like living there 35:00 Britain gave all give it to the UN and then when the US came in and so they the 35:05 way they saw it they saw thousands upon thousands of refugees leave leaving that area because 35:12 they were basically getting forced out so that we can you know create a a home for for Israel and so it really kind of 35:19 opened my eyes a lot I mean it’s kind of like you in the house that you live in Tony I mean if somebody came and said we 35:26 need to bring some refugees I need you to leave or you know I need you to you know make room for them it it really um 35:34 shed some light for me on on the whole issue here you know why Palestine is so 35:39 uh upset at this whole thing why they don’t want peace because they still feel like it hasn’t been that long ago just 35:46 in the 1940s you know my parents were you know uh born around that time so it 35:52 hasn’t been a lot all that time we’ve we as in the UN mostly the us at the time 35:59 forced out all these people that we took from these concentration camps put them in Israel but in doing that you know we 36:06 kind of like pushed out a whole bunch of people did we did that nation building kind of thing and so I you know I think 36:13 it’s horrible what’s going on but you know I think you know there is that that 36:18 I guess people kind of turn a blind eye on on a little bit is that nobody really talks about the displacement of people 36:24 that were already living in that area they got pushed out so they can create another land it’s not like it was just empty 36:31 unused un undeveloped land I mean it was already people living there and they sort of got pushed out so I don’t know 36:38 what what’s your thought that yeah no and you know like I kind of said at the 36:43 beginning um ultimately I you know generally I line 36:48 up with the Palestinian people fighting oppression um you know you can go back 36:54 even further obviously under the Ottoman Empire uh you know the region was relatively 37:00 peaceful with the three religions living together now you know one thing that I will say is that um you know there’s a 37:08 little piece of misinformation that the Jews weren’t there before uh the Holocaust before they 37:14 started moving in there were Jews living there um just as there were Palestinians living there they were living in peace 37:21 and there happen to be more Palestinians um and even the term Palestinian I you 37:26 know we say that now but the the area was just considered Palestine um so even the the Jews living there might have 37:32 been considered Palestinians um and so the Jews were there as well but you know ultimately 37:37 the Ottoman Empire ran a fair Fairly peaceful region and when that was no longer the case the British screwed the 37:44 place up like they did in India um with their artificial 37:50 boundaries um often religious and so they did the same thing with Israel Palestine and trying to divide it up up 37:57 U but at least at that point they were divided up relatively evenly um that 38:04 situation started to deteriorate over the years especially when the United States got involved and then ultimately 38:11 in 1967 um you know when Israel won the war 38:18 um and so yeah there you know the Palestinians absolutely have an argument there and have 38:25 absolutely been oppressed conditions in Gaza are horrific even before this um 38:30 the West Bank is is under military occupation completely um there’s no 38:35 Freedom there and that’s not okay um and you know people there didn’t necessarily at least originally do anything to 38:42 deserve it and even today you couldn’t say they did anything to deserve it these are mostly kids um the problem I 38:48 have and the reason for the debate tonight is that as allies of the Palestinian people 38:56 people as progressives as lovers of freedom and progress and all the things 39:02 we’re not going to get anywhere if we don’t acknowledge the pain and heartache 39:09 caused by this horrific terrorist attack um when a terrorist attack happens 39:14 people get very angry they start to think short-term um and it’s not necessarily 39:21 that it’s the right that it’s right that that has to be addressed although I I do think it’s right but it’s more so that 39:28 if we’re going to make any progress in um talking to people about the plight of the Palestinian people you’re never 39:35 going to do so if you just ignored the death rape and um kidnapping of kids in 39:43 a terrorist attack and so I think that the left has to do a better job of 39:48 acknowledging the the horrific nature of that and that opens the door to talk 39:53 about the situation and you know yeah I agree that it’s horrible man it’s a 39:59 horrible situation but when when folks were rounded up by Hitler uh and put in 40:07 those camps you know I believe that they were not you know from that area of 40:13 Palestine and rounded up there and you know put it into the concentration camps they were living in Germany they were living in Poland they were living in all 40:20 that area and so when they were liberated from those camps you know it was pretty much what 40:27 do we do with these folks and I I personally think you know they should have gone back to live in the homes that 40:34 they were you know ousted out of even I know it’s horrible because infrastructure was all bombed up you 40:39 know there was a big war houses and you know living conditions were horrible you know how can you get along with these 40:46 people that just enslaved you basically but I think to put them into this area 40:52 just opened up a whole can of worms and and it was us we did this you know 41:00 and well the British did it before us but yeah yeah we did this yeah yeah you’re right absolutely right you know 41:06 but they sort of bowed out and said I don’t want any part of this you un which is basically the us at the time you know 41:13 it’s on you what do you want to do and and you know I don’t I don’t know the the the actual Logistics of what 41:20 happened on that land Tony but you know I live in a city you know of like you 41:25 know 300,000 people and I cannot imagine everybody being told to basically leave 41:33 the area so that others can come and inhabit that same you know those homes 41:39 and the schools and and sort of just be granted that kind of stuff and and like I said this guy that I talked to his 41:45 father took in you know refugees and so they had a different point of view they just saw the the horror of people being 41:52 forced out and I don’t think we talk about that a lot about the mistake that was made U by by opening up the K of 42:01 worms yeah no I I uh again you’re not going to find any disagreement here in 42:06 terms of the um sort of the origins of the problem and uh the impact of that um 42:16 my only point is we do live in the here and now and we also have to acknowledge 42:22 a different kind of evil um I will say if you go back to World War II um you 42:30 know one of the reasons they weren’t one of the many reasons they weren’t wanted back where you know in their original 42:36 homes was still because of anti-Semitism a lot of the people there still didn’t want them 42:42 around um and so you know there’s there’s sort of that ugliness in in um 42:49 some of the political process but you know in addition to that 42:55 um you know I think the world the world dealt with Nazi Germany 43:01 in the only way that it could given the amount that Hitler was allowed to 43:08 encroach on everyone else’s territory had that been addressed earlier it may 43:14 be a different story but regardless you know the way that we dealt with Nazi Germany was through war 43:21 and unfortunately war is ugly and you have to make alliances with uh 43:27 Nations and groups that don’t necessarily align with your values and one of those countries that we had to 43:33 align with to defeat the Nazis was the Soviet Union and then we had to deal with because of that um another nearly 43:43 Century of evil that included the Googs right and and things like that and so 43:50 you know while liberating people from the con concentration camps was Wonder ful um 43:57 it’s another example of the cycle of violence and I think that’s something 44:02 that Gandhi that’s something that the Civil Rights Movement um really took to 44:08 heart and they spent a lot of time educating themselves on how to achieve 44:13 sustained progress um and the only way to do that is through non-violent 44:19 resistance and well I you know it’s hard from a moral 44:24 standpoint to expect people that were oppressed um to embark 44:30 on such a thing the only thing that I would tell people in those kinds of situation is it’s not whether it’s right or wrong for you to have to do that it’s 44:37 what actually works um you know at this point if you want sustained progress for 44:43 the Palestinian people much like black Americans achieved although there’s a long way to go um that only comes 44:49 through nonviolent resistance let’s say we got a new visitor fellow I can’t read the rest what do you 44:56 got for us oh actually I got uh suspended from chat for the last 24 hours so I’d really 45:03 just joined cuz there’s this guy in the chat I want to respond to he says country of old men marry 14 and 16y old 45:09 girls sick and tired 450 dude the median age for Palestinians is 18 none of them 45:15 even make it past 30 like on average everyone like over I don’t remember the percentage but people that are over 30 45:21 it’s like 20% of their their yeah also what like is the solution then to bomb 45:27 the like even if there’s a bunch of child Brides In in Palestine is the solution to bomb them like yes if you B 45:35 if you kill the child Brides technically there isn’t a child bride problem but like you’re it’s what is the logic there 45:43 what how how does that justify bombing civilians I think it’s just some 45:50 islamophobia yeah I think so too yeah what’s interesting though is how it kind of correlates with the 45:56 know this person’s like manic they’re just repeating the same thing yeah he can’t bro it’s literally the median age 46:03 is 18 no one makes it past 30 you can go Google 46:14 that it’s so weird it’s like it it’s it’s it’s like oh yeah don’t kill these 46:19 children oh but they’re married I don’t understand why like it’s just it’s I 46:25 don’t know that I also I feel like yeah it’s like what you said about um people 46:31 not acknowledging like the hurt and anger that comes from such a tragedy but like you know we’ve been through this we 46:37 we uh we went into Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11 and uh it tanked our economy 46:46 um traumatized a whole generation of people um and then they had to come back 46:52 and now they’re dealing with all this PTSD and injuries and they you know 46:57 there’s they they got to deal with the [ _ ] VA which is the worst thing in the world and uh and then on top of that
like a million dead civilians and uh you know a whole generation of people in
other countries that are going to grow up hating America and so you know it’s just and like they’ve already started
doing this I think it was they’re they’re reporting 3500 uh casualties in Palestine
over the past 10 days which and then over a thousand of these people are
children and uh yeah it’s I think it’s higher too it’s like 5,000 is what I was
just hearing I well it’s hard to count because they’re killing journalists left and right this guy followed on uh
Twitter passed away um he was a journalist in Palestine and uh he was
killed in an air strike um so yeah it’s it’s and also like all this talk about
anti-Semitism and like everybody being accused of being an anti-semite like I
fear for my Jewish friends around the world what the response from the International Community is going to be
to such a vast
overreaction yeah I think you know one of the things you brought up though kind of applies here um in that
I I completely agree with pretty much everything you just said um and it’s why we need a ceasefire it’s why it’s got to
stop that being said part of the blame for these civilians dying in Gaza has to
be put on Hamas because they were they are hiding behind civilians we do know that you know that’s not something
that’s a lie um and not allowing them to leave you know buildings that um
Israel’s warning that they’re going to bomb so yes Israel needs to stop um they
are the source of the problem if you will but we also have to acknowledge the
fact that Hamas is also partially blame for those deaths I think if you listen you know to
what the Palestinians are asking for Tony I I don’t think we’re I don’t think they’ve moved on the way we would like
them to say we’re in the here and now you know if you’re standing on my foot since then you haven’t moved your you’re
still standing and there’s still pain you know you have not they’re they’re still pointing back at the fact that
they were removed from that area and they they don’t want they don’t want
Israel there they just don’t want it there and I mean I I am not anti-site at all you know at all but I think it was
wrong of what we did and I think that if you listen to them you know they’re not going to they’re not going to be ever
okay with what happened and I don’t think we’re listening to that and we shouldn’t know I mean yeah they
we should listen and they shouldn’t be okay with it that’s not what I’m saying I’m just saying um that we have to
acknowledge evil where evil is at in all circumstances otherwise we’re going to cut one side completely off from
listening all right you ready for this I’m actually going to say something positive about Donald Trump are you
ready I saw a c brother of Donald Trump and I am I am not a trump fan at all I
absolutely am glad he’s forth from the bottom in president because that’s where he belongs but there was a clip where he
was talking about this is an old clip not related to this conflict but he was talking about trying to broker a peace
agreement and he was going into that expecting the Palestinians to be
impossible and he said he met with them and they were very responsive they talked with him and he said after like I
think he said like 3 to 5 minutes so he had Don net you know baby Netanyahu
before this and he he said within a few minutes he said I looked at him I said you don’t want to deal do you and Israel
said no like Netanyahu was like completely not interested and he he said
that’s when he knew it wasn’t going to happen because the Palestinians were more Cooperative with him than
Netanyahu interesting you want [ _ ] um so I 51:22 came in a little bit late um you guys supporting Palestine or Israel palese we 51:29 got a mixed bag all over the place here I don’t think any of us are like well I guess Daniel’s I 51:36 think I think we’re all generally I can probably make the statement that we’re all generally supportive of the plight 51:42 of the Palestinians um we have some disagreements in approach you know 51:47 forgive me if I’m not stating your opinion correctly but 51:53 yeah I kind of get what um what’s his what’s his name uh JM I kind of get what 51:58 JM was saying too like how Hamas like and the P like that that whole attack 52:04 this is after like Decades of living under just gruesome apartheid conditions 52:12 and air strikes and uh I mean also yeah 52:17 like the the the uh IDF has just a horrible human rights um resume but uh 52:26 so yeah I do kind of get the notion that um Hamas was getting their lick back but 52:33 and then that’s the crazy thing about like people in Israel saying like oh we need a swift response as if this attack 52:40 from Hamas was just out of nowhere they’re like whoa what are you what are you doing this for like that’s just not 52:46 what happened and there’s it’s you’re just you’re completely washing away history if you if you look at it like 52:53 that but I mean mean it’s just on either side on either side once you start 52:59 bringing children into it you’ve lost your sense of humanity definitely do know I think a 53:07 lot of times we get too caught up in what’s right and what’s wrong and less I 53:12 this might be because I’ve had a career in politics so I don’t know take that for what it’s worth um but instead of 53:19 what works uh you know you can pound the table all you want and be on the right 53:24 side of things and then you might get thrown into um an oppressive situation 53:29 right um there is an effective way to persuade um and to use rhetoric and I do 53:38 think that that works and I think when I’m talking about um you know people acknowledging 53:45 and I’m not necessarily talking about people in Gaza that are currently being bombed I’m not sitting there you know 53:52 expecting them to make a reasonable argument right now they’re not in that place and that’s why you need allies um 53:57 but I think generally on the left those of us who who understand or at least are 54:03 more supportive of what the Palestinians are going through um you have to understand that we need to make progress 54:08 in that argument we need to make the world understand or nothing’s going to happen but constant war and death and to 54:15 do that you’ve got to acknowledge that what Hamas did was evil and that you know that’s that’s really the only place 54:21 I’m coming from like aside from like maybe Mia 54:26 Khalifa which by the way let me just speak on that for a second regardless of whether you disagree with what MIA 54:32 Khalifa said or not for PornHub to fire her after all she has done for them 54:39 after all she has done for the industry the art form I mean she she’s she’s a 54:46 legend she should be respected as such she should be given a pass she I even if you’re mad at her after all she has done 54:53 for us did you didn’t you start this by talking about Epstein now you’re giving praise to 55:00 Pornhub no no no no I’m saying I’m just giving you a hard time 55:05 man how they turn how they would turn on the woman that made them into an Empire 55:12 what kind of cocaine are you buying Jo you this is just is Am I Wrong 55:18 Am I Wrong I’m pretty sure I’m right yes or yes a star Daniel is a great contributor to 55:25 this chat and I’m appreciative any I just giving you a hard time I thought it was a funny connection yeah no the point 55:32 I was the point I was making before I went on that tangent uh defending um one of the great uh 55:41 American entrepreneurs of our time uh I was saying yeah she’s like the only 55:47 person I’ve seen make any kind of uh statement in support of Hamas I mean 55:55 yeah i’ I haven’t seen any the only people I’ve seen the only people I’ve seen calling for any kind of violence 56:01 against children are the people saying that we need to like level Gaza Gaza needs to be a crater I mean Netanyahu 56:08 was literally tweeting out this is Children of light versus Children Of Darkness he sounded like [ _ ]
Palpatine oh yeah no he’s embracing the whole savior he’s he’s in his Sith Lord
but there are that being said you have to acknowledge that there are you know people you know Hamas especially that do
call for the elimination of Israeli people all the time so I mean yeah and
their their their whole uh whatever their textbook or their uh manual I
don’t know what you even call it um yeah it’s super anti-semetic and uh and all
that but um we have to somehow try to be able to find Nuance like to be able to
discuss some level of nuance otherwise nothing we can’t progress here you know what I mean and I I think the only way
to do that is is you know to listen to what both sides want and I think the only thing that Palestine wants is to
have Israel just completely dissolved and and have the land go back to the way it was before 1947 which is not going to
happen right but I mean that’s that’s basically what you know what they want if I have no I mean I think
most if I have two acres 200 acres of land and you take it from me if you tell
me Well what if I give you a Dodge Ram Jesse would that make you feel better you know I I don’t I don’t think that
that’s really going to make do I think the dod Ram genuinely would make them feel better like like actually a Dodge
Ram but I’m saying like yes they want well again though you got to remember
though there were Jews living here too it wasn’t just Palestinians that were living there no but I get what he he’s
saying like they want their land back they want the land back that was from them and yeah like I don’t think they’ll
be full satisfac I that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push for other kinds of strides like I think
beong but if you look the last time I looked at some of the polling I don’t know how good the polling data is in among the Palestinian people but I think
most Palestinians are supportive of a two-state solution yeah I’ve seen similar uh yeah so I don’t think
everybody just wants to go back to pre yeah they just want to on all the streets they want to be able to I think
that’s a way bigger priority for them it’s just living a life of normaly I don’t think Hamas probably Hamas
probably wants to go back but I don’t think majority of the policy and peopleas really just spawned out of
resistance like that’s what their you know objective was I’m not condoning the concert attack and or anything but you
know that’s it’s just a long it’s like 75 years of Oppression that’s why
they’re you know acting out like they have I don’t know if they even necessarily want
Trail of Tears you know I mean you know they were forced out off their Landes the way that Native Americans were you
know and but so here’s the thing well they’re
still there but what happened in the past and who had the land in the past matters only to
an extent because you fall into like revanchism and irid dentis which was pretty much Hitler’s ideology like
claiming prior land it’s what Russia is doing in Ukraine and it’s doesn’t always hold
water as a reason for right now like it’s something that can be discussed but
realistically I saw a crater on here um and I can’t remember his name and he was saying all of that is noise because
ultimately you can’t go back like there has to be a solution going
forward and so whatever the lines were at whatever Point like it has to be like
both sides have to let it go mean
Ukraine’s not gonna just let it go and say all right you know come
on for their land one of the biggest things I keep hearing all the Israeli people say is like well let our hostages
go and I’m curious if y’all looked into or know how many uh they’re technically
prisoners that are imprisoned from by Israel but they’re to me they’re like prisoners of War like technically
hostages but do yall know how many yeah it’s 4500 or possibly more the
craziest thing to me is that they’re denied access to legal representation and then also Israel doesn’t release any
proof no there’s no evidence of any of their wrongdoing and some of the excuses
for some of the percentage of the 4500 or more it’s like they say Well they’re terrorists so like we don’t have to we
don’t they don’t they don’t deserve the representation Andes how does that work in America anyway like like does do
terrorists get lawyers here in America do don’t we have to have proof of their crimes well so there was that was the
HDI versus um I have to go back to my law school days but those are the uh the
old um Guantanamo Bay cases and essentially military combatants as they
were considered that weren’t US citizens um were basically granted no
rights so they they didn’t have a right to representation um but if you were a citizen you did have some right to
representation um it’s a little bit complicated but those are basically the dividing lines I think the the opinion
was written by Scalia the line is they’re just
admitting war crimes to yeah to me
it I mean that’s how War goes you know you can set stone rules and so what not
but when War happens you know [ _ ] is going to go sideways no matter what and 1:01:55 every country is going to take advantage of whatever they can to make it seem 1:02:00 better than what it is yep 1:02:06 and Israel was the most oppressed the Jewish people were the most oppressed 1:02:13 people um of all time in terms of what happened to them in the early 20th century right and now we’re seeing a 1:02:20 situation where know the zealots of that group are doing some of the very same things 1:02:28 and I think this is another example of sort of the cycle of violence and it’s 1:02:33 why I don’t think violent uprisings whether you’re Palestinian or otherwise ever work it’s why you have to go the 1:02:40 non-violent route um if you want sustained progress and I know it’s it’s 1:02:45 very difficult to reach people who are under her for conditions to to make that point but but I think I think that’s a b 1:02:53 Point as if you look at in history is full of wars and we have made you know exponential progress actually so 1:03:04 why it played part of you know who we are today um without let’s say World War 1:03:11 I and two we wouldn’t see many developments in many areas of um uh 1:03:17 medicine weapons um engineering you’re talking about technological progress I’m talking about human rights oh yeah but 1:03:25 look I mean with more technological progress and more systematical things we’re we’re pushing more 1:03:33 rights this guy saying progress does not happen without violence what are you 1:03:39 talking about like happens all the time without violence that’s not what I’m saying you 1:03:45 took it out what it was a guy in the chat yeah antibubbles that’s the dumbest 1:03:52 thing I’ve ever heard an bubles go go watch or read a book on Martin Luther King my 1:03:58 man also like dude every Pixar movie was made without violence like what are you 1:04:04 there’s so dude I I can grow a bunch of bananas without violence like what is 1:04:10 your idea of progress just I wouldn’t make too much of it somebody it could be a bot who knows usually the violence is 1:04:17 from the backlash to progress was there violence though I mean and I hate to keep beating a dead Hors man but you 1:04:23 know 75 years ago I mean sh why we debate Travis don’t be don’t apologize well I mean Biden was uh you know Biden 1:04:31 was born before Israel ever existed right I mean it wasn’t that long ago I 1:04:36 guess is what I’m saying this wasn’t 400 years ago that that this happened this happened within Biden’s lifetime like 1:04:42 this is right but it wasn’t a clean transition like you’re making it sound it wasn’t as if like they just decided 1:04:49 this is where the Jewish people should go we’re going to kick everyone out and this is this is what we’re going to do 1:04:55 that’s not what it was there were Jewish people living there there were were liberated and taken over from 1:05:03 Germany and Poland they were moving there was huge huge migration there and 1:05:08 a whole new country was created at the cost of other people being displaced but 1:05:13 a lot it wasn’t as clean as you’re making it sound because 1:05:19 remember the British were the first ones to divide it up and that’s probably most of what you’re talking about that was after World War I that’s when a lot of 1:05:26 migration happened going from Jerusalem into Gaza or into the west bank and then 1:05:31 there was a mass migration obviously after World War II um post Holocaust 1:05:37 that was all over Europe though reason what what was that reason that they were put there it was the 1:05:44 Zionist it was Zion wanted them it was Zionist but it was a lot of it was CU nobody wanted them sadly it was a lot of 1:05:52 anti-Semitism a lot people in the neighbor when when we say Zionist we’re saying that because that was their land 1:06:00 400 years ago right and and that’s why they want to go back to what they consider their land that has not been 1:06:06 their land again I am not an anti-m i i sound like Wonder so bad I hate that but 1:06:12 I’m just saying like nobody thinks you are nobody thinks you are there were people that were displaced children also 1:06:18 died I’m sure you know in that you know and to get out of here so we can build a country sure that there was a lot of 1:06:25 what they would call evil that we are now calling evil right but the same thing happened for instance in India and 1:06:31 Pakistan do you think that the Pakistani people should be able to move back to India and take back portions of India um 1:06:40 this kind of stuff happen all over the world and we can you know we can only go so far back I mean New Zealand there was some 1:06:47 of that you know that that occurred there and the people were able to sort of get their country back and I’m not 1:06:52 saying that that’s what’s going to happen here I I I I would prefer a much cleaner this is your side this is our 1:06:58 side versus strips here and there um to me that doesn’t make any sense um but I 1:07:04 don’t know I don’t know they that’s what they were trying to do 1:07:09 it’s the Palestinians even like after World War II when all the European Jewish settlers like they’ve sought 1:07:15 refuge and that’s why they ended up in Palestine like he was saying no one else wanted them and the Palestinians opened 1:07:21 their hearts up and welcomed them you know with open hands and just like literally helped out this population of 1:07:27 Jews that were being treated so poor like uh at at best they were 1:07:32 discriminated against at worse they were un alived right so like that’s the sad part to me about it all is that 1:07:38 literally the tables are turned now and these these people that took over the land you know 75 years ago they’re just 1:07:45 now they’re acting as the uh oppress I don’t know if it I don’t know if it was that clean though because you know the 1:07:52 reason the reason for the dividing Lions initially was because there was so much 1:07:57 conflict between the Jews and um uh 1:08:02 Muslims under British rule prior to the holoc Holocaust post World War I and it 1:08:08 was that tension that Drew the dividing lines initially and then after the 1:08:13 Holocaust it the whole situation was exacerbated because there was an influx of immigrants and that’s when you saw um 1:08:21 sort of the hard dividing lines so I don’t think it was a situation where like Palestine was like yeah you know 1:08:27 come in welcome you know well yeah I hear you I have heard too that like it 1:08:32 was literally you know America I guess right or the United Nations uh really 1:08:38 but they they planned for that foothold to be you know over there in Israel it 1:08:44 was like between three different places I think somewhere in Argentina and yeah and so like yeah it’s obviously like 1:08:52 politics and like power control and stuff but I want to address one comment I apologize before I forget sometimes 1:08:58 I’m forgetful because I’ve seen it multiple times this this comment that the Jews were there in a th BCE or 1:09:05 whatever you know um that you know that’s when they you got to remember one 1:09:10 that’s a really long time ago two if that’s what you’re pointing to the Israelis did weren’t just given that 1:09:16 land they took it um read the Bible read all the stories of uh genocide and and 1:09:22 their their p to the promised land and they slaughtered people to get there so it’s so we’re going back thousands of 1:09:29 years America shouldn’t exist we should give it back to all the tribes that were here back then uh it’s yeah it’s like it’s I who 1:09:37 who is who was I forget who was talking about it but yeah if you you you can go back hundreds thousands of years with 1:09:44 anything we shouldn’t be looking back we shouldn’t be trying to get to back the way things were back then uh we should 1:09:50 definitely be looking for Solutions moving forward that’s why I say the the revanchism like the going back to Who 1:09:57 belongs to what argument is kind of a dead end kind ofor that has to be it’s a 1:10:03 thorn that has to be removed but like it’s it’s one of those things where like 1:10:10 it you know because like the commenter said like I know that technically is you 1:10:15 know that land is not not Jewish land but it’s also not not Palestinian 1:10:22 land so you know like what are you going to do with that you’re just going to go back to it being nobody’s land so why 1:10:30 like there’s there’s no there’s not a really solid argument in the past there as much as there needs to be a more 1:10:36 solid solution than what we have now no it’s kind of wild it’s like two 1:10:42 whole [ _ ] giant groups of people going no it’s my turn yeah if Israel if Israel wants the
whole area they’ve got to be more democratic right I’m not great with us supporting this un undemocratic state
where Palestinians can’t even vote um right so there’s yeah there Tony after
is isra Israel was created uh I do not think they were welcome with open arms
in fact there was they were bombed at and there was war immediately from surrounding countries but they fought
back and they won and I’m thinking how do a bunch of refugees that just got
liberated from the Holocaust suddenly have weapons enough to to throw you know
to push back like three four countries and I’m thinking because uh if you look at the weapons that they had I’m sure a
lot of the USA and so from what from what I was
told I guess the the story that the people are saying in morania that I heard was let’s say my house you know
was Palestine and the Jews were placed there and they take the bedrooms and two
bathrooms and after the war happened uh they took the Jews then took the kitchen
and the laundry room and the study and they took even more land and they said all right all right give us back you
know go ahead and stay in the restroom the restrooms in the in the where you were at just give us everything back and
they said no this is ours now and it think that added more to the fire that
has been burning for 75 years absolutely and just and Travis to be clear I’m not
disagreeing with you on any of this um you know what I’m saying if there if
there are points of disagreement it’s uh sort of the Nuance of the actual occupation because it was I don’t think
it was quite as clean as you do but it’s also just sort of um the effective
nature of a Nuance debate and acknowledging the horrific actions of the other side in order to achieve
progress so it’s not like as if I’m you know not hearing you and not agreeing with you it’s just that I think if we’re
going to make any progress for you see all these people in the chat um you’ve seen it elsewhere obviously that are Hardline Israel maybe maybe you can’t
get through to them but there are people that are on the fence um people that are watching American Media they saw this
terrorist attack they don’t know any of the history of it um they just saw the
horrific nature of the attack um if you want to win the hearts and minds of people like that and I do think it’s
possible you’ve got to start with that you’ve got to start with acknowledging that and then move forward like hey who
do you what caused this because I think you can make an argument that that attack just like I said um Hamas is
partially to blame for the children dying in Palestine Israel is partially
to blame for that terrorist attack for what they’ve done to the Palestinian people and I think you know starting
from that standpoint with that level of nuance I think is the way to move forward but it’s just
Meed yeah to put some certain agendas to um you
know better further explain their standpoint with Israel at least cuz if
you’re going on the media and be like oh yeah well this confli has been happening and this been bombing that and you know
war crimes were committed and we killed people and we’re supporting that cause you know it does not paint a good image
on the United States of America and it’s not somewhere you want to be as a powerful country at all
and but to resolve the issue I think Palestine what they should have been
doing is um getting some powerful allies if anything you know um not necessarily
to fight back but just to you know scare away they have powerful allies conflict
they Iran China and Russia but yeah so that’s the major thing like the United
States and Russia they hate each other but they could never go to war because of nuclear weapons s you know it’s that
these two forces are so powerful that they just exactly yeah go with each
other doesn’t Israel have nuclear weapons as well yeah she they do I saw
the Chinese are rolling in their warships earlier today
um one thing for the pro Palestine like people who are pro Palestinian and you
were talking about like for people are struggling with the both sides issue of this the left or the pro Palestinian
either side really is being targeted heavily with this information right now online it’s very noticeable especially
on Twitter um and telegram uh Facebook
um Reddit like there’s a pattern to like when I’m going to say Russian because
usually that’s what it is like something will Trend very bizarrely like super early in the morning and the big one
over the past couple days has been um like usually the word genocide is in
there and it’s connected to Biden so it’ll be like like Biden side or something like that but I think that
that’s kind of what’s pushing people away from the idea of being able to acknowledge like the ter terrorist
attack was awful because it’s all of that disinformation is designed to slander
the United States like by by tying it to the idea
of genocide in a lot of ways um and it’s it’s interesting to watch unfold cuz
like you’ll see it like you can search things in and like you’ll see copy paste
posts and then like within by the end of the day I start seeing those posts on
here like people using those phrases so it’s just something to be aware of because I think it kind of shuts
people’s active thinking down it’s just super emotional they’re all appeals to emotion and they’re appeals to Identity
politics um saw that with the oh sorry I didn’t mean to stop go you’re fine go
ahead well also yeah we saw that with the U we saw some of that with the hospital bombing we still we still even
know if there was actually a hospital bombed or a parking lot or
well I saw they there was Al jazer They analyzed video footage from like uh uh
security cameras both in Israel and in Gaza and they claimed it was obviously not launched from Hamas and then also
another I don’t remember what the independent journalist team what their name was but they they analyzed the
audio that Israel’s government released claiming to be Hamas soldiers that were
talking between each other saying I think that was our bomb and that was determined to be fake audio that was
pieced together so that’s one thing too is like we don’t know right we just don’t
both sides are engaging in Mis know what’s true yeah but the thing is to me
is like if the claims of Israel making up this propaganda is true it just
really speaks to the point that Israel knows themselves what they’re doing is wrong you know I think both I think both
sides are are propagandizing in some way like like the baby beheadings right we still don’t know if that’s true but that
made everybody angry so far so far the only excuse because Israel IDF has came out and go their excuse now to saying
why they have they don’t want to release any you know photos or any evidence of the 40 babies is out of respect to the
families and to me it just seems like an easy sellout you know just an easy also
here’s my thing here’s the thing though here’s the thing with both of these situations it’s fine to say you don’t
know it’s fine because the whole point of the propaganda that you see whether
it’s coming from Israel Palestine Russia wherever is to push you into an extreme and an example of that is before that
hospital actually while this Hospital thing was going on all I kept hearing on here was how our media was biased
towards Israel and the whole time I’m thinking everything on the news right now is about Israel bombing a hospital
in Hamas or in Palestine and then you know it turns out that regardless who did it
the reporting was horrible like they messed almost the entire story completely across the entire
media but the main story this week was not pro-israel but what was being pushed
online was that our media was not covering anything that everything was
pro-israel so it’s kind of an example of what I’m talking about like there’s narratives being pushed into this
whether you’re Pro Palestine or not that people just need to be able to step back and think like if I don’t know I can
accept that I don’t know because in the fog of all of this we’re not going to know I mean just that simp the fact that
they’re arresting the protesters at the capital like the Thousand American Jewish protesters that were all asking
for a ceasefire on Wednesday last week that to me kind of tells me all I need
to know a little bit you know it’s like why are they trying trying to cover up to me that’s a cover up you know like
why are they trying to shut these people up it’s because they only want to push The Narrative of pro Zionism you know
the Israel is our foothold over there we want them to have the land they’re going to keep us strong in the Middle East
that’s what it looks like to me but what is in there that you may not
know like I don’t what I don’t know about the bombs about like well there’s
a lot I mean as far as are you talking about the Palestinian protesters no did
you see the protest at the United States capital on Wednesday it was like over a thousand people 24 rabbis I think yeah
and like why are so some of them got arrested you know so did some of the Palestinians too though no I think these
were they were Jewish people protesting Israel right yeah Pro it was Pro
Palestine yeah it wasn’t pal it wasn’t uh pro-israel like everyone at the capital on Wednesday was Palestinian
Jews yeah yeah and and they and yeah and that’s so that’s I think you might have
maybe I didn’t say it correctly did you because I I wasn’t saying that they were pro-israel people getting arrested I
didn’t see any of that no I saw Palestinian um yeah it was just yeah
yeah and and and so them getting arrested is obviously like America trying to shut down that whole Palestine
narrative because like you were saying you know they’re just pushing the one specific pro-israel narrative in the
media but I’m not even really seeing that that’s what I’m saying like when I when I go across the media I’m not
seeing just a pro Palestinian narrative I’m seeing people saying that but then when you really look at the reporting
it’s really not as pro-israel as people are saying it is with our media
landscape today too I don’t know if you can even say the term the media anymore it used to be right there used to be a
broad sense of what the media is covering I can’t get that sense anymore and with this story like what we’re
consuming right now where you go yeah exactly this is technically
we’re probably more accurate than most so I mean Wolf Blitzer is a former APAC
lobbyist like there’s so it runs so deep um I I think APAC is very I mean APAC is
you know that’s a um biggest lobbies on the Hill are the
Israelis and the Saudis yeah I and the NRA
yeah well for one side yeah but APAC and Saudis have power on both sides oh yeah
for sure for sure can I a little bit like lazy here and ask I mean I saw the
Red Dawn kind of parachuting that happened at the festival and you know the missiles that were being lobbed
after all that what ignited this all of a sudden I mean was it going back to
we’re still pissed off about 75 years ago and there’s still kind of fighting because of that or was there no
recognition of their government I mean what do you know what what it was Israelis have been running um uh
more intense raids for the last year or two under n Netanyahu it’s one of the
many reasons he’s getting pushed back internally um and those raids have
resulted in some 600 you know children dying and whatnot um you guys think it
was the in up of that that was I think what led to Hamas but or you know Hamas doing what they did but you also have
world powers at play you’ve got Ukraine you’ve got Iran um you know there there
absolutely could have been some sort of instigation as well given the timing there’s a lot of
factors do you guys think Israel knew it was coming CU I mean they they are they
have I do I’m not going to BU that’s the whole September 11 conspiracy theory Cen
I mean they got it was more that
told well the thing is though is a lot of countries told us about 911 a lot of
you know stuff like that in hindsight you could like oh yeah you knew but how often do you think they get intelligence
that the Palestinians are going to attack well then what about okay that’s about what to do about the intelligence
is very challenging sometimes yeah what about the fact too though that it took them what was it six or eight hours to
respond and apparently there’s like a military base right next to the the damn concert you know and they just used the
excuse of like oh well that was our holy day so everyone was off but there again you’re looking at circumstantial stuff
right like um like yeah of course I wouldn’t put it past nit Yahoo to have some sort
of Nefarious reasons for instigating this thing but you need hard evidence to
be able to to be able to make those kind of allegations why do you think I mean is 8 hours a long time or 6 hours even
is that isn’t that kind of a long time for them to respond look how long January 6
lasted yeah but that’s you know we know already that Trump was just sitting
watching his TV and didn’t we didn’t go into Afghanistan for uh what was it a
week or two and we knew who did it I mean we knew what was going on we knew
Al-Qaeda and all that so that and how long was it between the first and the third plane yeah well I’m just talking about
you know the fact that they didn’t put any soldiers on the ground you know
in response yeah just until we know we don’t know
right until we know we don’t know so it’s hard to say yeah there’s you can have your suspicions but suspicions
don’t make facts so it’s it’s hard to operate on that well I got all the
suspicions not so many facts I’m the suspicion guy suspicions are way more
fun that’s for this information will Target those suspicions that is exactly what I see
when I look at this like research of stuff online well Dan does have well that’s what my Spidey senses are
for I will say though I’m gonna actually um I’m going to head I’m going to give Enlighten mentality the last word um I
hear but uh I’m going to end this I apologize guys but I think this is exactly the Nuance discussion that
people should be having so hopefully we LED some kind of example today but yeah enlightment if you want to I think you
had you were saying something I cut you off I didn’t have the last word I was going to ask you a question I was going to start a big discussion so I probably
shouldn’t ask it unless you want to have the last word what are you uh maybe we can address it tomorrow it might come on
tomorrow too what’s the question uh my question was going to be how you think Biden’s been handling all
this ah um I’ll I’ll just give my brief response I guess uh I think initially
the world went way too hard in support of Israeli self-defense
although I think it was appropriate to um defend their right to self-defense I
think it was as as if the world was Israel and Israel was the world and you know the perception of that was horrid
and I think Biden played into that that being said since then I think he’s absolutely taken a um a well balanced
approach um trying to get the Israelis to be cautious in Gaza um but you know
that being said Biden is very much part of this military-industrial complex that
I hate so much um you know and 150 million for Israel Ukraine and whatnot
is fine but why weren’t you willing to cut the military budget after Afghanistan why you know why aren’t we
looking other sources for that money when we when we really need that money so I guess that that’s my short answer
is he’s doing okay he’s doing far better than Trump ever would that’s for sure but um I don’t know why he’s so for a
Democrat he’s very much a Law and Order military industrial complex kind of guy
and that bugs me a little but fair answer Fair answer I mean you
should have seen that coming with with the sunglasses he has those cop sunglasses yeah that’s true he looks
like he looks like the cop from hey Tony thanks for having me on
man you have a good night all right thanks guys I’ll talk to you later see you later
than love you


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