Tonys Politics Live: Bothsidesism works for Israel/Palestine Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQI6gAK6SYM

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hey guys let me know if you can hear me
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okay sorry about my dog in the background well
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all right hang on one second I’ll be right
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back
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sorry about that anyway let me know if you can hear me okay where you’re from from I’ll
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explain uh the topic in just a minute here a few more people get in if you don’t mind just hitting the screen a
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bunch of times so we can get this thing going we had a same topic as last time and we had a great discussion last time
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so I’m hoping we can continue um feel free to request live if
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you want to come on but uh essentially what we’re getting at here um you know I as much as anybody
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else you can watch my videos uh I understand the problem with both
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sides ISM but and moral equivalency um but when we’re talking
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about this instance you know I I tend to uh line up with the free Palestine
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people um however if we want success and this goes
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you know this is kind of across the board but if you want success um you know you’ve got to
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persuade people and if you’re not even going to going to acknowledge the horror of the Hamas terror attack you’re going
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to hit walls right um and I understand the plight of the Palestinian people I
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mean I don’t understand I haven’t experienced it but you know I have knowledge of it um but you know it
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really goes for both sides so you know you know you could talk about how for instance Israel um is partially responsible for
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what’s happening in Gaza um in terms of the death of thousands of children uh
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partially if not I’m sorry Israel’s is responsible Hamas is partially responsible for what they did um and
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vice versa Israel is partially responsible for what Hamas did based on the history and it’s those kinds of um
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caveats and and that level of nuance that allows us to discuss this issue
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with without all the hate um you know I know it’s a difficult thing to to do but I do think it’s
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possible otherwise you know what are we doing here right if if uh if you want to stand firm in your camp and you don’t
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want to budge um you know so be it I I I have’t yet to see somebody besides legitimate
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historians that fully understand the history here even people that live there um you know I I I’ve seen a number of
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debates here on Tik Tok and again feel free to come on uh if you mind hitting the like button a bunch of times so we get this going but I’ve seen a bunch of
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debates here on Tik Tok and for instance um you know well I
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shouldn’t say the debates on Tik Tok I don’t know if you all saw this this uh discussion that Seth Rogan had um you
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know he was talking about how he was he feels misled as if there was nobody
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there prior to 1948 um you know but the truth is there were there were a lot of Christians
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there there were mostly Arabs there there were there were some Jews there and that that was a steady progression
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um the British obviously pushed the barriers and started the problem um as
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we know it today not not the entire problem but this form of the problem um
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you can say wrong all you want feel free to come on um but anyway think what I’m saying
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that’s blow uh is it Jorge is it how’s it going
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good yeah it is good what do you got for us oh
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not too much not too much um are you familiar with marks at
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all of course I’m assuming you mean Carl of course of course that one
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yeah Carl what are your thoughts just generally on Carl Marx
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Marxism I’d say uh you know as a as a science you know as a revolutionary
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science I see um you know I think one of the issues that I see with
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Marxism and as it played out in reality in the form of Communism at least a port
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at least uh in some form um you know to me you know I’ve
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talked I’ve done a um I did a live at One this was this must have been a year ago or so and I talked about the dangers
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of individualism versus the dangers of communitarianism and I think the problem
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with the real world application of Marxism is it has an authoritarianism
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problem and I actually think individualism has the same thing but in a different form um you know as it plays
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out in reality you know the idea of some sort of future anarchism I think is
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unrealistic I think what happens is when people people capture power and when power is
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centralized um they don’t relinquish that power and so that’s you know that
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would be sort of the problem I have with Marxism as a philosophy is I don’t think it necessarily plays out in reality but
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a lot of his language regarding um the Bourgeois and um you know what we
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see with capitalism is prophetic right so he’s he’s got that element as well so
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I don’t know if that answers your question but okay cool so how familiar like uh with you are the The Works of
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like lennin Stalin ma Etc I mean fairly I was uh you know a
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political science major uh went to law school I actually taught law and public policy for a couple years at a law
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school um a lot of that was philosophy political philosophy so I mean somewhat
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I’m not an expert but sure sure um okay um something
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like like have you ever read for example I mean uh let’s just go to the simplest one I
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guess oppose book worship are you familiar do you recall that one at all say that one more time the the first
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part of didn’t here um are you familiar at all with opposed book worship do you
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recall uh I vaguely okay
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um are you religious though so I am an ex-conservative ex
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Evangelical um I still consider myself a follower of the great first century philosopher
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Jesus Christ but that’s as far as I go I don’t attend church anymore sure sure
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okay so um yeah are you familiar with like uh
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how familiar would you say you are with like philosophy I mean gener I mean is there
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is there something that you wanted to get at or yes yes I have some familiarity with philosophy like I said
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based on my background yeah yeah I wanted to get at materialism versus idealism
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basically um sure because for example the materialists would say that Jesus
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certainly uh you know the ideal of God even certainly exists right but that
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it’s a product of human consciousness of human thought right so whereas the
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idealist would say that no on the contrary the idea uh like God for
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example created the material world and the world aders and adapts to the idea right so sure
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yeah extends from a lot of the Aristotle versus Plato stuff yeah yeah so um well
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yeah yeah yeah and um yeah so uh would you classify
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yourself more as a materialist or an idealist probably more as a materialist
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materialist and I’m sorry for tanking your views that usually happens when I get on but uh it’s not a big deal don’t
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worry they fluctuate I’m not that concerned no worries um yeah
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because let’s see
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um yeah so what is your uh what’s your what are you getting at in terms of Israel Palestine Israel Palestine oh
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okay perfect um so I from my understanding support a one- state Palestinian Sol
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Palestine solution um mainly because you know from my understanding I’ve seen pictures of
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the Palestinians welcoming you know the the Jewish people there after the persecution from you know World War II
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obviously so uh from my understanding you know Israel really has no claim to
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even exist in the first place but um I wouldn’t say that history is entirely
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accurate all right that’s fine that’s fine but uh me there there were terrorist attacks on both sides at that
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time because of tension so I don’t know if I would say they were welcome with open open arms but sure okay well in any
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case um ultimately I obviously as a Comm as a Marxist uh support a you know no
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State solution yeah so that’s that’s the I
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mean hey ultimately that’s what we all want but I think we have some disagreements in terms of the
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practicality of it but yeah I’m actually I’m going I’m becoming historian right now and uh some of the books I’m reading
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tell me that uh like specifically Stalin is the main question on most uh you know
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that the West has spent all of its majority of its time in money and energy uh demonizing you know because as soon
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as th was done with then the rest of them were you know done away with the flick of the wrist as this as this book
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says yeah and I would the only thing I would argue in terms of what we were talking about before is that again that
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that that it has an authoritarian authoritarianism problem and that it leads naturally to a Stalin or a sure
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but that’s like dict I would say that’s like a liberal view of author Authority
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and or dictatorship right because from a Marxist view every government is a dictatorship right because it’s a
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dictatorship of the ruling class right well I mean yeah it depends on
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who’s the ruling class right that’s the whole point of a democracy though is to distribute the ruling class no no no no
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like democracy existed even in slavery that was like a early democracy and now it exists in
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a form of democracy yeah yeah but the more democratic you get the more people
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you include distribute that yeah I I actually advocate for proletarian democracy myself have you heard of that
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one of course yeah so what do you think about that yeah so if if I had to you know if you had to pin me down I would
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be somewhere I’d probably be somewhere between a regulated capitalist and a uh
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a market socialist um so maybe uh you know you could describe me as a liberal democrati
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is I don’t like to get too to dive too deep into this stuff because I think issue by issue it varies I tend to be
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more of a pragmatic guy sure but that’s probably that’s probably where I line up
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live in the USA yeah I’m in Kelly nice nice are you familiar with the CP USA at
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all no no but I do want to let Curtis try in because he’s been sitting here for a bit Yeah well actually I haven’t
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been sitting here too long I I um just got in so I I don’t know really what’s been talked about or anything I’m just
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going off of the both sides of the both sism works for Israel and Palestine um
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so honestly yeah I’m kind of trying to get back to that so if you want to start fresh Force for sure so I mean obviously
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there’s been conflict there for a long long time Gaz of strip in the West Bank and and and and uh you know rising up
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against in this set in the other but so in this particular conflict um um
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Hamas is is the aggressor and the thing the thing about it is is while it’s
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terrible what’s going on in in the West Bank in Gaza and people dying it’s terrible what’s going on in in Israel
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and and people dying and civilians dying I don’t understand why why it’s one side or the other right
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now when it’s really both sides should be fighting Hamas I think Palestinians
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should get rise up against a Hamas that’s basically making their lives miserable
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right now it’s like the afghanis they didn’t like the Al Qaeda there and I this may not be the greatest of examples
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but you’ll get what I’m saying you know they had they formed the Afghan National Army the Afghan police force we had
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interpreters from Afghanistan and it was these Afghan Nationals who wanted their country back from al- Qaeda I kind of
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look at it as the same way as is why aren’t Tali yeah why aren’t
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Palestinians rising up against against tamas and is it just because so they
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they from the original conflicts that they still want you know into Israel and
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they’re just allowing Hamas to do to to to do these things even though it’s causing thousands and thousands the
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casualties of their own people because that doesn’t make sense to me so Hamas was only elected originally
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with 41% of the vote yeah um so the majority of Palestinians voted for
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someone else so it’s not um you know even at its origin it’s not the majority of Palestinians but I think you know you
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have to put it in perspective right um what I always like to say is you create ghettos you get gangs you know
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Israel set the situation up to be pretty dire in terms of uh just the basic
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economics of Gaza and the West Bank you know Gaza for those of you who are unfamiliar Gaza is
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essentially like they say an open air prison um just cut off right right so there’s not necessarily an Israeli
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presence although over the last year there’s been a number of raids that’s resulted in I think the death of 600
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children which is what kind of led up to hamas’s attack um and the West Bank is
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BAS basically martial law right Israel has a a heavy presence there um and so
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you’ve got people that are in incredibly desperate situation uh you know back in
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the 90s we had a chance before Hamas um but again Israel would not let
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up on the settlements and the settlements you know we tend to look at the settlements like they’re a side
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issue but um that’s really the origin of this problem in terms of displacement from the very beginning um you know even
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when the British came in 1917 um you know the the idea of the
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displacement of Arab Americans was very present that’s that’s what they felt when there was the initial
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influx um of Jews based on European discrimination at that time so what do
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you believe started what do you believe Israel should be doing uh for the Palestinian
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people for I think Israel you know this conflict I would necessarily say it’s
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yeah I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s Israel but I think Israel should leave them alone and the UN should get in
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there and provide resources um build schools build hospitals uh food you name it um get get
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those economic conditions up um get rid of the mar martial law on the West Bank so do you think getting those economic
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conditions up and in the Gaza Strip in West Bank do you think that would stop Palestinian attack and again present
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Hamas excluded do you think that would stop Palestinian aggression into
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Israel yeah yeah absolutely I mean maybe not initially but over the long term um obviously you know of course you have
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this you you’ve got the extremists in uh Palestine as in Hamas who definitely are
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genocidal in the sense that they want you know they’ve stated they want the elimination of the Jews 100% um yeah but
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that’s you know that’s I think that’s a minority and I think their power comes from the dire conditions you hear people
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in the situation right now you know that are huddling with their families they’re hearing the bombs and they’re asked about Hamas and most of what I’ve heard
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in this these interviews is we’re not crazy about Hamas but we’re tired of this [ _ ] like we can’t take it anymore 18:27 so I go back to again so you know Russia was fighting Afghanistan in the 70s and of course it 18:33 was cold war USA didn’t want open war with Russia so we supplied you know uh 18:38 the Afghans turned out to be Al Qaeda with with guns and training to fight Russia in Afghanistan and completely 18:44 wrecked the country completely ruined the country I mean there was it was just it turned it third world you Afghanistan 18:51 in the 70s were before that conflict was was a decent Living Country up until 18:56 then and then even though know they have that they had that terrible they had 19:02 those terrible living conditions when the you when the US came to get rid of 19:07 al- Qaeda they still stood against al- Qaeda the majority of them like I said 19:13 with the with the Afghan police force and the Afghan Army and and and uh you know the Taliban Wasing what’s that the 19:21 Taliban was harboring al- Qaeda and and Taliban was in charge similar 19:27 situation in that majority of Afghanistan didn’t support the Taliban but but do do you understand what I’m 19:32 getting though so I mean I can understand that that maybe improving the 19:37 living conditions in in Gaza and the West Bank is is that Israel’s responsibility or is it Israel’s 19:44 responsibility to just leave it alone and let the UN or an 19:51 outside entity help well I mean I think the I think 19:57 NATO Bears a lot of the responsibility um given the history sure 20:03 obviously the British took it from the Ottomans and then following World War II we got 20:09 involved um and it was the you know originally the British that were the ones that started these artificial 20:16 dividing lines even though the initial dividing lines were much better than they are now um they’re the ones that 20:22 sort of started that process so I would say yeah we I think we have a responsibility along with Israel because 20:27 they’ve you know they’ve been so brutal well I think what confuses me though is like 20:33 play like you know numbers games like certainly I mean the US like any metric you want to talk about like socialism 20:39 quote failure like the capitalism is failing like way way way harder you know 20:45 anyway so I don’t see I know that’s a topic you want to get on but well I mean 20:51 we reason Israel has the money in the bombs is because the US is funding it and Biden is there saying like you know 20:58 uh the only reason we’re doing it is to defend our economic interest in the region so it’s not like something you can ignore you know well I mean that’s 21:05 old news that’s what the US does anywhere anywhere we go Iraq Afghanistan we’re there to defend our own interests 21:12 oil whatever it happens to be so I mean that’s it’s also not necessarily capitalism because non- capitalist 21:18 countries like China do the same thing 100% so yeah that’s kind of old news and yeah I I agree that capitalism doesn’t 21:24 necessarily have anything to do with that that’s just what the US China China certainly does not uh you know do fun 21:31 genocides the way the US is doing I think that’s a huge uh are you kidding me have you SE have you seen what’s happening in Africa with with minerals 21:38 the weager Muslims I mean that’s got to be a joke right the 21:43 we wait so it wait uh Tony you agree the weager one weager internally and then 21:49 yeah the weager internally for 100 for 100 years wait that US Government how can you believe 21:55 that one I mean the Wagers yeah the Wagers are in China I understand but 22:02 the the myth of their uh you know genocide is straight from the US government itself in the US media there’s no myth of there’s no myth of we 22:10 you are misinformed sir no no you are you are so okay no I mean this is this 22:17 is information that’s readily available this is not some sort of conspiracy yeah 22:22 I mean we all know about the camps we all know about to ameran media you go beyond if you go 22:31 beyond um yeah go beyond the Wagers you talk about mineral rights in a in Africa 22:36 and what’s happened with uh in places like um Sudan right so China’s 22:41 absolutely involved in all that can I have a source for that do you have one off the top of your 22:47 head for the weers can’t Prov it here right now 22:52 forget American Media go to go to go to Al jazer I mean Al Z will tell you about 22:59 the the persecution of the wegers right now like I mean there’s there’s media outside of our 23:04 country Al Al Al I actually uh look into 23:10 them uh for their coverage of the Israel Palestine conflict a little bit so I’ll 23:15 look into their their China coverage as well yes so China is you know with the 23:21 US losing its position in the world following Iraq and Afghanistan China and Russia have stepped in and are 23:28 absolutely funding dictators that are doing horrible things in order to capture mineral rights which whether we 23:34 should whether we should have been in Iraq or Afghanistan beside the point uh 23:40 the pull out was botched and and we because we were there we should have stayed there we should still be there 23:46 and I think I think the area would be more stabilized if we were I don’t know ifre only who used the nuclear bombs you 23:53 know I mean in reality so it’s like they’re actually willing to there’s only one country that’s us a nuclear bomb and 23:59 that’s us right one capitalist country yeah that’s that’s my point 24:06 do what is it not I mean what does anything have to do with anything I guess I mean uh you’re the one that said it I 24:13 mean capitalism a capitalist country is the only country to drop a nuke what does capitalism have to do with dropping 24:18 a nuke especially when China’s got them Russia’s got devop I mean I don’t know when socialism like when a famine 24:24 happens in socialism it’s inherently socialism’s fault but at the same time like if capitalist country drops a nuke it’s not inherently capitalist fa look 24:31 man I’m not here to defend capitalism capitalism has got problems that’s not what we’re getting at but the government 24:37 uh developed the nuclear bomb it wasn’t capitalism so I I don’t know you can’t you can’t separate the 24:43 two it was a capitalist government you absolutely can there’s no such thing as a capitalist government capitalism is an 24:49 economic ecomic system that’s yeah the government administers that system but 24:54 there’s no such thing as a capitalist government hello it up anyway James you 24:59 want to chim in James oh hi yes hi how are you what you got for us 25:08 good how are you what you got for us uh well I just got online and I realized you were on live so that’s why 25:17 I’m here so let me hear what’s going on and then I might chime in 25:24 might okay sounds good Curtis did you want to keep I going to say yeah right now we’re trying to get back to both 25:29 sism works for Israel and Palestine and I I agree with that to a certain extent my my issue is that Israel is a small 25:37 country with really big walls really big weapons and they have been constantly 25:43 pushed by the Palestinian people and and you know their living conditions could have something to do with that but I 25:49 mean if if Canada if if we were as small as Israel and Canada and Mexico were 25:56 constantly you know dropping bomb in our country I kind of think we we’d be in the same position that Israel 26:02 is well yeah but you got to you got to look at the origins of where why are those bombs being launch I’m you’re 26:08 talking about the missiles being launched why are they being launched where does that stem from that’s a good question why do why did the mafia start 26:16 right why did gangs start in ghettos Why did um these come from Horrid conditions 26:23 sure you get violence from I don’t I don’t disagree with that my whole point was that Hamas is directly responsible 26:31 for these missile missile attacks and like I said I keep using the Afghan the Afghans as as as an analogy like the 26:39 Palestinians should put that Israeli stuff aside and and get rid of Hamas because that’s what’s causing all their 26:46 issues right now Hamas is the reason why Palestinians are dying not Israel Hamas 26:51 let me ask you a question do you do you think Hamas is responsible for at all for Israel’s raids for the the potential 26:58 ground war in in Palestine now yes yes do Hamas bear responsibility 27:05 for that so then why doesn’t Israel bear responsibility for hamas’s attacks why why would say I’m sorry say 27:13 that again so if if um if 27:19 respons second James hold on yeah hold on one second James so if Hamas is 27:25 responsible partially respons responsible for Israel’s attack on Gaza 27:31 then why isn’t Israel partially responsible for hamas’s Attack on Israel oh I mean Hamas launched the 27:39 Rockets first right and that’s why right but what happened before that I I mean 27:46 there’s been incursions into Israel for a thousand years so I mean it there have 27:51 but like just this year those 600 kids dead based on Israel’s actions and I am 27:58 not before all this before all this happen and I’m not saying any of that it’s good but but War civilians die and 28:04 it’s a sad terrible sad terrible but there was no war there was no war before 28:10 this you can’t these were just RS okay so they haven’t de they they didn’t 28:15 declare war but they’ve been at War for a thousand years and to to to suggest otherwise to me is just naivity well 28:22 then if they’re just at War then why aren’t hamas’s actions Justified if it’s just a product of 28:29 War why because Hamas is a an extremist group that calls for the death of all 28:36 Jews I mean did you hear Nan Yahoo’s rhetoric talking about the children of light versus the children of darkness 28:42 and I didn’t the the dehumanization of um you 28:48 know from I mean how is it any different I’m not understanding that so I’m with you in terms of like I think I think 28:54 what Curtis and I are showing right now is that if you get past this like I admitted that 29:00 Hamas uh is evil and what they did was evil and that needs to address right and Curtis is admitting that the conditions 29:07 in Palestine are hoard and that needs to be addressed and so I think like once we both admit that then we can have a 29:14 predictive discussion which is what we’re doing right now and so hopefully like for you guys are watching I hope this is a good example of where we need 29:21 to be but yeah I’m totally with 29:28 yeah but yeah no I think that you know I don’t think you can argue you know one without the other is all I’m saying no 29:34 and you know that’s almost any War well that is that is any War you 29:39 can’t you you can’t argue one without the other well I don’t I don’t see any war on the face of the Earth that’s ever 29:45 happened where you can’t argue one without the other yeah I mean James you want chy in 29:51 real quick I say very briefly I think this discussion 29:59 is so intense and so real uh both of you all of you are really bring great topics 30:06 and like just really talking some serious this discussion is not really 30:12 being discussed in the news like just how real you guys are and um it’s just 30:18 really horrible and very like just inappropriate not inappropriate you guys 30:24 but inappropriate how not in discussion the news needs be talked about you know 30:31 so like I’m just I’m surprised like like wow W but wow but I’m just so used to 30:39 the news not being talked about but then I’m here hearing you guys I’m like oh my 30:45 God how dare you don’t watch done just just don’t watch American Media because 30:51 I don’t I don’t care if you’re I don’t care if you’re conservative I don’t care if you’re liberal just American media is 30:58 just bad cannn all yeah can I say something like I’m like I watch since 31:05 I’ve been young well we all been young but since my youth I’ve watched like the 31:11 like typical news but even like you know the early like YouTube like I know there 31:18 have been like anyways continue on I’m just like for some odd reason anyways 31:25 continue on yeah there’s PL there plenty of news sources out there and and I I think that the the invention of the 31:32 24-hour News Network was one of the worst inventions in the history of the United States of America oh lennin has 31:37 plenty to say about that but listen uh Tony I was wondering if you could 31:43 uh M go ahead what was I gonna say I was wondering if you could 31:50 uh oh [ _ ] um oh oh why are you thinking about it
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uh Anthony um doesn’t go to the people making money in bombs yeah so I’m not going to argue that Hamas doesn’t need
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to go so that’s that’s you know when we talk about U humanitarian Aid it should not be administered by the current um
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regime in Palestine and there’s something we agree obious so I’m what do we what do we do like what
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actions do we take like you said you were pragmatic like what actions do we
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take so like well I mean you can look at little things right so uh in the first few days of this situation Israel
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dropped like 6,000 bombs um when we were in Afghanistan and
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we made a lot of mistakes in Afghanistan we were dropping like the maximum 2,000
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to 2500 a week usually it was a month right um and so I think Israel very
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simply needs to show more restraint at least as much restraint as we did and we didn’t show that much restraint I can so
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I I can get on board with that a little bit I I I do think there is a line when
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you there that is a terrible siren whoever that is if you don’t mind
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meting it’s not me hey James is that you no I didn’t say anything not me no
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no the siren oh there we go go so no yeah sorry James I had to meet
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you I apologize I do think I do think in any War restraint should be showed I
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mean that’s why we follow the Geneva Convention you know we don’t blow up mosques you know we don’t you know we we
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try to make sure buildings are cleared of of women and children of course that’s not always how it works but uh we
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do we do show some restraint on the battlefield As Americans so I can I can I can also
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agree that in such especially in such a small area that is that the Israelis
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could show some more restraint and stick to
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more more militarized we never cut off water food or power to PE to civilians
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to kids right like we never did that either so it’s just they’re just going
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we North Korea or we did in Korea we did in N okay yeah I’m
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talking I’m talking about Iraq and Afghanistan but yeah question because I asked like what
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we could do and you said Israel needs to let up I’m I’m like wondering what what can you and I do you know oh what can we
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do yeah um you know I think in all honesty discussions I think we need to
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have yeah exactly have the discussions start from a standpoint where we’re not
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angry and that the only way you do that is admitting the the horrific nature of what’s happened on both sides um and I
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think once that happens um you know you can see a situation where
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there’s more support for the Palestinian people there’s more worldwide calls for
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Israel’s restraint uh especially in the west there has been in the rest of the world but not necessarily in in the west
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sure um and I think you know when you have a more tempered environment then level
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heads prevail so you know two of us aren’t gonna be able to do much but I I do agree with your topic
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up up up top both ISM works for Isel on Palestine and and I do get it can I can I change gears just for a
35:32
second do it it’s not capitalism we only got for some reason we only got 10 people here tonight so yeah let’s uh
35:38
let’s mix it up I see I see I heard you earlier say you were more of a liberal and and former conservative what uh what
35:45
caused the change if you don’t mind me asking yeah yeah so I
35:50
um um you know it’s a long process it wasn’t like an overnight thing obviously
35:56
but but I uh so I’ve had about a 15-year career in
36:02
politics um I’ve worked for three different members of Congress okay um
36:08
and a number of other elected officials and campaigns and such okay and that used to be primarily for Republicans
36:14
okay um because I grew up as a sort of a conservative
36:19
Evangelical um what started the wheels turning quite honestly was my faith it was um reading about who Jesus was in
36:29
the Bible and then not seeing that through actions in the church and I saw this a lot when you know I was on um
36:35
it’s called a street team um working with the local homeless
36:40
population and the the response that I got from Christians for even trying to help people you know people saying that
36:46
I was enabling people and um that they’re you know they’re beyond help and
36:51
all all the sort of thing you know that was sure that was a big indicator for me that um some something was off so and
36:58
then throughout the years sorry oh sorry sorry I know it’s long but um yeah
37:03
throughout the years things got added to that and then you know I so when I was
37:10
working for a republican member for instance you know I started to have trouble with their stance on immigration um and the rhetoric towards
37:18
undocumented people um and then by the time 2016 rolled around I had had it I
37:24
was kind of a Kasich guy I was on the Fringe moderate side of the party sure
37:30
um but once Trump got the nomination I re-registered I left the party I was uh
37:35
independent for the next four-ish years and then once uh and then on January 7th
37:43
2021 I re-registered as a Democrat so not necessarily because of the violence
37:48
but because of the 147 republicans in Congress sure voted to over the results
37:53
I can understand that you seem like an intelligent guy and so um changing your
37:59
party affiliation um you’re obviously a liberal and not a
38:05
leftist hey Tony I would love to talk to you generally generally yeah yeah so um
38:12
um Can can depends on the issue but can can we agree that that the leftist
38:19
portion of the democratic party is almost ruining the party because we here
38:25
here’s my thing we need liberals what is the Leti and I’m more I’m I’m more I’m I’m more moderate toward toward
38:33
the middle I have some some pretty liberal social views um more conservative governing rules but
38:39
broad um Le isn’t quite really that that broad um so that’s that’s what no your
38:46
idea what you just said like it it’s not like can you explain that part well
38:52
which part the leftist side whatever you said that’s kind of like not explanatory yeah
39:01
well I think he was asking I think he was asking me a question about it yeah so I I I I I believe that the ve we’ll
39:09
say the very far left of the democratic party um me saying leftist that’s what I
39:15
would mean is the very far far left of the democratic party is is I know
39:21
ruining ruining obviously I don’t know let that go Sim similar to the on the
39:28
conservative side the the really far right Evangelical um Republicans are ruining
39:36
the Republican party and we need moderates to step up so is that kind of
39:42
the headspace you’re in you’re just more on the liberal side not exactly so I’m not a big
39:49
fan him I actually understand him completely so
39:55
I say hang on yeah I would say yes and no so for both Sid ISM and moral
40:01
equivalency I think that works for Israel Palestine I don’t necess really think it completely works when it comes
40:06
to our general American uh political alignment so like so on the right I
40:14
think on the right what we’re dealing with is legitimate Fascism and I have no
40:19
qualms about saying that word um and I think that that fascist movement that’s
40:24
founded in fundamentalism has taken over at least 70% of the Republican party and
40:31
so that is a I could agree withous problem that’s sort of the
40:36
precursor the precursor to Ty right we’re gonna disagree on that one but continue so well yeah well either way so in terms
40:44
of fascism what I’m what I um what I uh what do you call it identify as fascism
40:52
is sort of based on the Godfather of fascism right musolini uh he’s the one that defined it initially um but the
40:59
short form of it is sort of one religion one culture One Nation um so you have
41:07
nationalism you’ve got um Supremacy racial Supremacy issues and then you’ve
41:13
got Christian nationalism or whatever religion it happens to be in our country it’s Christianity and when those things
41:19
align and anybody that’s on the outs gets punished that’s Fascism and that’s what you’re seeing in the Republican
41:25
Party on the I was going to say would you say on the far left that you know we’re not allow like college campuses
41:32
you know we’re not allowing uh you know Republican voices to be heard I mean that to me is also fascist so Republican
41:38
voices that’s that’s a misnomer Republican voices think the Republicans have been heard for quite a long time so
41:45
like yeah hold on James um so on on college campuses um Turning Point USA
41:50
for instance is actually funding candidates to run for City councils even yeah guys are the only ones that have
41:57
problems are the are the guys that are extreme fascists like Ben
42:04
Shapiro um uh guys anybody that’s you know uh Jordan Peterson these guys are
42:10
extreme fascists in terms of their rhetoric I completely disagree with that
42:17
point but we we won’t that hold on a second hold on a
42:23
second the point is they’re still allowed to speak but they’re the only ones that have problems with people protesting them and whatnot on the left
42:30
so let’s get to the left right the left does absolutely have a problem with
42:35
fundamentalism but they don’t have a problem with authoritarianism and tyranny because none of these are
42:41
government actions um the right wants government action to stop these things
42:48
right um the left does not want government action to stop what people are saying um in the Public Square
42:55
that’s not a thing they’re fundamentalists in the sense that they’re uncompromising do one it’s just like
43:01
using a Canadian bill c16 you know um telling people what the words that can come out of their mouth like I I
43:09
wholeheartedly believe that leftists would like laws in place
43:14
to to to quell our first amendment rights but nobody nobody has said that
43:19
though that might be what you think but nobody has actually said that on the right they’ve actually said that right we have examples of it all the place
43:26
right there’s anti-lgbt it on the left we have you
43:32
know uh several former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and and and um I
43:38
can’t remember the other lady’s name you know lit literally get up and say that that Maga needs to be silenced and I’m
43:44
not saying Maga isn’t extreme I’m just saying who they saying they need to be silenced mag isn’t extreme excuse me
43:52
she’s not saying that I I didn’t say magot is an extreme I said magot is extreme right but she’s not trying to
43:58
pass a law to stop their speech the right is actually trying to pass laws to
44:04
stop speech what laws are they trying to pass to stop speech and Enlighten so there’s don’t say gay there’s the
44:10
Florida book bands there’s um uh anti-abortion laws anti-immigrant South
44:17
Carolina the governor of South Carolina literally just passed a law banning all
44:23
uh um what is it called B BDS Banning like any kind of boy boycott um what
44:31
what does BDS stand for again I’m not I’m looking like Rick Perry up here but um good to see you again Daniel good to
44:38
see you boycott divestment and sanctions so basically boycott and investment and sanctions for those of you who don’t
44:44
know is uh a movement it’s a nonviolent movement um aimed at uh destabilizing
44:53
Israel’s military through boycotts and um economic sanctions and divestments so
45:00
the governor of South Carolina literally just signed a bill I think it was yesterday or maybe today um saying that
45:07
that’s that’s illegal that’s that’s a republican effectively uh Banning a
45:12
certain type of free speech when you also go back to the administration in terms of even if it’s
45:18
just not speech if you’re talking about the other aspects of fascism like people right so like um we had a Muslim ban
45:26
right literally we stopped a group of people from coming in because of their religion um that’s clear fascism yeah um
45:34
so you know the list goes on and on like half of what the Trump Administration did was aimed at stopping certain people
45:42
from coming in this country stop being the Browning of this country that’s fascism so so well I think when you have
45:48
a religion that that that breeds um that breeds fundamentalists
45:54
and terrorists I I I I believe stopping that group of people to come in to be on
45:59
the safe side I mean the our allies in allies in the Middle East won’t even
46:06
accept these people like the Syrian refugee crisis like the Middle East shut the do you think who do you think the
46:11
number one problem for the FBI is right now is is the number one problem for the FBI Islamic extremists for
46:19
the Christian nationalist I don’t agree with that right now I think drugs I think the cartel is I think this
46:26
conversation is to FBI doesn’t
46:32
enforce conversation is hold on James James hold on a second you talk to any
46:38
FBI agent their number one priority that they’re told right now is white supremacy and it’s not even close or or
46:45
it’s inspecting female bodies what do you mean oh oh got it
46:51
sorry joke thank you for the levity Mr yeah
46:57
that that would took me a second get my brain out of gear all right hey man I’m just getting
47:03
a little more intense because of people watching 42 people watching what do you
47:11
think I have to B when I get angry more people come on I enjoyed the conversation and I do agree with you
47:17
that both s both sism works for Israel Palestine I think we we definitely agreed on some things but uh we’re going
47:23
to have to agree go we can agree on yeah absolutely so uh you guys have a good time all right agree to
47:34
disagree yeah so I think this is one of the problems right the the right and I’ve been on the right I I you know I
47:40
understand that like you feel like as a right-wing especially white male like
47:46
you can’t say anything um that you’re being silenced but when we’re talking about fascism and authoritarianism and
47:53
whatnot we’re talking about government action we’re talking about laws um these are real things right these aren’t like
48:00
oh that guy made me feel bad on the internet type things these are these these go a lot these are ongoing things
48:06
and like changing is so challenging for
48:12
everything yeah yeah yeah anyway all right James you uh
48:17
you out of here too you gonna hang on I can be I can be
48:23
if you need need me to be no no no no I don’t I just said the other two drops so I was just curious if you were going to
48:29
stay with me but yeah no if anybody wants to come on in chat feel free to come on no James you’re good you can stay um well I’m not like like I’m I’m
48:37
very ignorant I’m very like let me tell you something I have
48:43
never paid attention to politics until the former president came into you
48:50
know and then I started like paying attention until his like
48:56
I guess two years into his like you know yeah and then paying attention and
49:03
then being educated being educated about politics and then being educated about
49:09
the world and then going back to my high school years mindly my high school years
49:14
was like in the mid90s so it’s like it’s I feel stupid
49:20
but at the same time I feel educated like I I have a lot to say do you know I
49:28
mean went black hi your screen went black yeah my screen
49:33
went black when I joined so I don’t know what I but can you guys hear me I mean obviously I hear you okay I I mean
49:40
that’s good enough for me as long as you can hear me like good hear you yeah still see the text
49:47
and everything but just for some reason like my video feed of you cut out okay yeah what do you got for us
49:55
well just Jo the conversation you said both side isms work for me works for me and just kind of want to know what you
50:01
mean by that yeah so just this is just specifically for Israel Palestine
50:06
obviously I see a big problem with both sides ISM and I I and moral equivalency and and this you know all those things
50:14
across the board but when it comes to Israel Palestine I think we have to start from um a place where we can hear
50:21
each other okay and to me that’s Pro inan people admitting what that what
50:27
Hamas did was horrific and needs to be addressed and it’s people in Israel admitting that the conditions in
50:33
Palestine are absolutely brutal and they’re being oppressed and they need to be addressed and if we can start from
50:39
that place then I think that we can have a reasonable conversation about this specific situation okay can I can I say
50:47
something hold on let’s Zach chamman for yeah okay so yeah know saying like the recent attacks on like you know the
50:54
music p or whatever were horrific but from Hamas is perfectly reasonable but
51:00
like as someone who is on the pro Palestinian side it’s also just like yes
51:07
what Hamas did is like terrible but like there’s also historic ways that the
51:13
state of Israel like directly created Hamas yeah yeah Israel does bear some
51:20
responsibility to the Hamas attacks just like Hamas Bears responsibility for Israel’s
51:26
attacks now I’m not going to put them on the same level I’m I’m actually with you I tend to fall more on the pro
51:31
Palestinian side but I don’t like to make Sid because I don’t think that helps us um but you know I I’m generally
51:38
with you I understand that like these violent situations tend to arise from
51:43
oppression you create ghettos you get gangs y um that being said it doesn’t
51:48
excuse the actions themselves I’m not saying I’m not saying that it excuses you also I also think um there’s some I
51:56
think there’s some misinformation like right now the left is actually being targeted more heavily with
52:02
misinformation on this issue than the right and I think what it’s resulting in is some skewed history um like for
52:09
instance there seems to be this long history long history yeah yeah so there there seems
52:16
to be this understanding that there were no Jews in palestin before 1948 and that’s not true there were Jews there uh
52:23
or before 1917 even there were Jews there there just weren’t as many it was a it was a gradual influx based on
52:30
European persecution um there were terrorist attacks on both sides the Jews also
52:35
committed terrorist attacks um especially in the 1940s okay so like just and so there’s a lot of little
52:41
there’s a lot of little nuances in history that I think are getting lost in the discussion nuances okay so just off
52:48
of my own like off of looking this into this myself the earliest nums I could
52:53
find for um a Jewish population in what we currently call Palestine or
53:00
Israel was for 1880 listed as less than
53:05
5,000 yeah for 1880 yeah there so there was there was a a couple influxes the
53:10
next big influx was um was 1917 1918 I
53:16
think it was um and that was where the British really screwed things up right
53:21
so you had um at the time I think Jews by the 1940s Jews made up like a third
53:28
of the population and yet the proposal although the proposal is better than the situation we have now the proposal gave
53:35
Israel more land it gave them more resources even though they had far less
53:40
of a population you’re technically correct in saying that yes there have always been
53:47
like of Jewish people there but I think what theoc I’m just here to ask you guys
53:53
please stop saying the the Jews who are the Jews is it me is it my four-year-old
53:59
niece who exactly are the Jews the Jewish people people yeah did I was I involved
54:07
in that situation like please just stop saying that like it is just very
54:13
offensive wa how do you want us to I wasn’t uh condemning govern I just talk
54:20
about people other well no no we’re talking about we’re not talking about the current situation
54:26
there was no Israeli government at the time it was only Jewish population can you just find a different way to talk
54:32
about this stuff other than saying the Jews but I’m asking you how we would
54:37
like I don’t know how say it say the settlers there or just find
54:45
some other way to say it it is weird and it is well you I I can say I say the Arabs the Christians and the Jews those
54:51
are the three groups that were there at the time who are you talking about when you’re saying the
54:57
Jews the Jewish people there was I mean that that was a both cultural and religious group at the time do do you
55:04
understand how talk about people that way I I don’t know what you mean talk
55:10
about people that way I’m just referring to the group of people I don’t know it’s like saying the blacks like it is
55:17
weird it’s not weird actually black is the historical term and is is the term
55:23
we should be using say the blacks is much different than saying the
55:29
Jews is it I understand what you’re saying well yeah because you can’t call
55:35
it I mean you could say the Jewish people I could say that if you want yeah like just the stuff that’s going on
55:42
right now it’s weird I’ve I’ve been accosted at a grocery store and had
55:47
someone grab me and threaten to un alive me because I was wearing a a Jewish star necklace I’ve had someone steal the m
55:55
off the my front door repeatedly it’s just there’s so much fomenting of hate
56:01
it is it’s just inflammatory and it’s weird I just I live in the United States I live in North Carolina why am I being
56:07
accosted by strange people who are concerned about the Jews like it’s well
56:13
that’s definitely not okay I’m not yeah there’s no uh nobody here is going to be defending those actions we’re talking
56:19
about 1917 uh when the British came and sort
56:24
of started the the proposals based on the tensions at the time between the
56:29
Jews and the Arabs that was did you know about the uh the Russian oblast it had the rainbow as a flag did were you where
56:36
that that existed yeah that was that was one of the big influxes that was what we were talking about so like during that time
56:43
that was part of the influx and it was that influx that started some of the tensions and in fact uh well they
56:51
weren’t called the Palestinians at the time but the Palestinians started committing acts of Terror and then the
56:57
Jewish population there at the time also started committing acts of Terror and that was sort of the origins of the
57:02
modern tension are you sure you’re talking about what you think you’re talking about I’m pretty sure the Russian obla
57:11
talking there’s um independent state in
57:17
Russia it’s a place where a bunch of Jewish people went to live after Russia said hey you can go live here and a
57:23
bunch of people from Europe were being persecuted at the time and this was between the late 1800s and early 1900s
57:29
years people went to live there and then they were all un alived by Catholics that was the other time that
57:36
je people tried to have obviously that’s horrific I I’m not I’m not following where that applies to
57:43
we’re talking about place that people tried to go I’m saying that TSH people have tried to have their own State
57:49
before it didn’t work out very well I’m saying things are more complicated than people under of course yeah they the actually the initial proposal by the
57:55
British was in Uganda um I I I mean like so yeah in the
58:00
modern world the idea of a religious ethn State just kind of feels weird in
58:06
general like yeah it it is but there is some
58:12
history there right there’s a lot of you obviously had heavy European persecution um all the way from 1880 to
58:19
uh the 1940s and then you had obviously starting with Nazi Germany the institutionalizing of that in absolutely
58:27
horrific ways and so those those are the things that drove I’m just saying if we want to protect a people putting them
58:33
all in one place I mean you know it wasn’t putting them it wasn’t uh it wasn’t as if they
58:39
said that that’s the Miss noer and I think obviously I tend to be on the free Palestine side but that’s the that’s the
58:47
misinformation that’s going around with progressives right now as if like they said this is where we’re going to put
58:53
the Jews let’s all send the there that’s not how it happened these were these were uh a number of influxes over
59:01
decades righten so the Jewish people existed there in the 1800s a very small
59:07
population of them and that steadily increased over time and then by the time
59:12
the 1940s rolled around and post World War II and we saw the reality of the
59:18
concentration camps there was a desperation to find a home were still even after World War II
59:26
they were still being persecuted in Europe and so I you know there okay there is some logic and reason behind
59:32
Palestine is a location um it wasn’t a a good solution
59:38
it wasn’t implemented well and it’s resulted in the oppression of the Palestinian people but I think both of
59:44
those things can be true at the same time I live here in Dearborn Michigan where we got the biggest population of
59:51
of Middle Eastern people I’m not going to call them a RS or Arabs or and and
59:57
you know it’s so ugly well it depends uh it depends where in the Middle East they’re from so if they’re from the
1:00:03
Arabian Peninsula you call them Arabs if they’re from they’re just looking out for theirself and then we
1:00:09
got Israel people too you know in Michigan you know we got one of the biggest populations look it up Dearborn
1:00:16
Michigan I mean a Muslim there it’s amazing how they fighting each other on
1:00:23
the streets man and it’s in America it’s like you talking about what do you mean
1:00:29
that you’re going to have to be more descriptive I don’t know what you mean are you talking about like gang fights or what no bitching about their signs
1:00:38
they hold up and they just go against each other man you know and we we don’t
1:00:44
man you know about the you talking about Arabs and Jews going against each other or you talking about Arabs going against
1:00:50
other internally Jews yeah it’s jbor m the largest population of Arabs outside
1:00:57
of the Middle East look it up Dearborn Michigan my best no no no get I I was
1:01:04
just trying to get I didn’t understand what you were saying best friend you know but but then I got a few friend too
1:01:11
you know and they fight each other they talk they you know it’s just disgusting man this war should never start it man
1:01:19
it’s certain world worth no yeah I mean yeah it’s nobody wants this war but I do
1:01:25
think that we all have to I do think we all have to open up our minds to the
1:01:30
realities of the situation why the situation occurred the left needs to the left
1:01:36
needs to admit hold on the left needs to admit that Hamas is evil and they committed evil acts the right needs to
1:01:43
admit that the Palestinians live in horrific conditions and that’s it’s going to breed violence um and once we
1:01:50
get to that point then we can have a more nuanced discussion about all our ships over there to Israel to the
1:01:58
mediterian it’s getting World War III is going to start man just live life to your fullest man if you got like I
1:02:06
always say if you got a $10 bill or $100,000 in your in your your bank
1:02:12
account spend it because bombs are going to go well yeah that’s but the thing is
1:02:18
though like you can’t Gary just ignore like for instance GT just shared with us that she’s literally being discriminated
1:02:24
against and until we can finden a lot of these discussions do F
1:02:31
hate and that is a problem for people oh I don’t like hate I don’t like yeah yeah
1:02:36
absolutely well that’s what I’m saying is that that’s why we need to come on platforms and talk about this stuff
1:02:42
reasonably instead of screaming at each other and creating more anger because Tik to how do I how do I go out there
1:02:49
and just explain to people that just live life to your fullest man we don’t only got one man you know everybody’s
1:02:56
trying Gary everybody’s trying but not everybody can that’s that’s the problem there’s there’s little kids in Palestine
1:03:02
that are dying there’s little kids in Israel that are dying like Get Enough is like Gaza 65% of the population is under
1:03:09
24 like half of them
1:03:14
are yeah I mean we can’t like we they want to live life to the fullest and they’re not able to you know so like
1:03:21
we’ve got to talk about this stuff we’ve got to deal with it unfortun we got to take some of the anger out of the air
1:03:26
but it’s hard when you got when you have people like GT that are literally just trying to live their life and people are
1:03:34
threatening to kill them you know money we got to take that temperature down you know it’s not good $100 bill to someone
1:03:42
you know and just give it to them and and help them $100 bill takes way my
1:03:48
food but you know what I’ll do it you know I don’t want I’m 50 this I’m not getting no
1:03:55
I’m a PlayStation playing my video game d Journey listen to Bob Seer you know I if
1:04:03
I could help someone you know it’s just so sad that’s going on in this
1:04:09
world you know I see well Gary I wish more people had your heart I do I wish more people had your heart we’d be in a
1:04:15
better place um but unfortunately that’s not the case I mean we saw what did we see um that’s the other thing the left
1:04:21
is not talking about enough and again for those of you just joining I tend to be on the free Palestine side of things
1:04:29
but the way things are right now the way that we’re talking about this the fact that we’re not admitting the horrific
1:04:34
nature of what Hamas did is resulting in things like this president of the synagogue getting executed right that we
1:04:41
saw uh was that Michigan I think it was yeah like that’s that that’s what
1:04:47
this stuff is resulting in and we’ve got to take this temperature down I’ve seen lots of people on the left saying what h
1:04:54
has done is horrific I mean sometimes it is cat into the idea of like well they’ both been impressed so that but they
1:05:01
just brush over it right they tend to just brush over it I think is is the
1:05:06
problem and say that it’s really just why that is right why people in
1:05:13
political office decide to do this they’re using the average person and
1:05:19
trying to F hate because it’s going to energize their voters and you don’t have
1:05:24
to be the most popular you just have to be on the side of the loudest people in the room they don’t
1:05:30
actually hey guys thanks for having me but my phone’s about to die so I’m
1:05:38
done and yet uh GTA I’m sorry if we got up on the off on the wrong foot wasn’t
1:05:44
my intention at all I get what you’re saying I get I get
1:05:49
where you’re coming from okay so give you guys a positive note if you guys want just a happy note um Sunday night I
1:05:57
had dinner with one of my friends who is Egyptian and he’s from an Egyptian Muslim family he invited me over because
1:06:03
he wanted to make sure that I was okay he thought that I might him for being
1:06:08
Egyptian and I was worried that he might hate me for being Jewish and that that wasn’t the case we had dinner and we
1:06:14
talked about how people are angry
1:06:19
other that’s fantastic that’s fantastic you know what I’m Italian and uh us Italians know that the way you
1:06:26
solve conflict is around the dinner table so quick I real quick I change the subject here
1:06:34
yeah Gary get the last word in and then I actually am gonna end the live so go you had one song You Gotta wake up to on
1:06:40
on your uh you know go to work you you know your call what song would you like
1:06:46
to listen to I got to see kiss last week for the last time in Detroit they
1:06:53
Detroit city was awesome but what song one song you know I’m a I’m a
1:06:59
hip-hop guy so I’d have to go with California love as cheesy as it is oh nothing wrong with that man I’m
1:07:06
old freaks come out at night man come on fire I have to go out in a fiery
1:07:13
Blaze We Didn’t Start the Fire that’s cool you know that’s cool I got to talk
1:07:18
to you guys and you gave me your wakeup call you know if you got to get up in the morning and you’re alarm clock goes
1:07:24
off you know what wakes you up and I like that one that’s
1:07:31
cool Houdini man come on all right guys I’ll probably see you
1:07:37
on Thursday take care yeah everyone have a good day nice talking with you man
1:07:42
bless you God bless take care stay safe

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